Caberta sued for saying Scientology is bankrupt

Excerpt from court decision prohibiting Caberta from speaking derogatorily of Scientology
Resultant discussion from German Scientology newsgroup de.soc.weltanschauung

Hamburg Administrative Court Decision
6 VG 4953/2002
In the administrative dispute of

1. Scientology Kirche Deutschland e.V., ... Munich
2. Scientology Kirche Hamburg e.V., ... Hamburg

represented by attorneys Wilhelm Blümel, Detlef Reichert, Kurt Henning, Stefan Bergsteiner, D. Beloch

against

Free and Hanseatic City of Hamburg,
represented by the Interior Agency, Office for Internal Administration and Planning, Hamburg

the Hamburg Administrative Court, Chamber 6 on January 14, 2003
through presiding administrative court judge Hardraht, administrative court judge Dr. Lorenzen, administrative court judge Langenchi

decided:

The defendent is under temporary order, until such time as a court decides otherwise, to prohibit its employee Mrs. Ursula Caberta to publicly utter the following statements while on duty, literally or figuratively, with regards to the plaintiff:

"I always find it highly interesting, if we are having a discussion now about how in certain circles, if we are talking about terrorism, it got this far yesterday too, where someone was apprehended, now he is in England. Then it's said that he spread ideology, but is one of the main perpetrators, not one of those who sits in the aircraft, he is not the one that throws the bombs, but is the one that spreads the ideology and is therefore assessed as particularly dangerous in this regard. So why wouldn't that go for other groups? Why isn't spreading an ideology, cynical ideology, whether spreading it in a secret school or as Scientology's cynical ideology, exactly as objectionable as it is in other circumstances?"
(concerning the Child Dianetics book): "Although Scientology always says that its children have a normal life, everything in there says it's not so."
"While we always associate child labor with girls weaving rugs, child labor occurs in Europe in Scientology."
The "Kommission für Verstöße der Psychiatrie gegen Menschenrechte" is a radical arm of Scientology that denounces misfortune primarily as a way to try to attract people into the organization.
"In my opinion the organization in Hamburg is bankrupt."
Even if there is no verified data, the number of members (in Hamburg) has been decimated.

The rest of the application is dismissed.

The two opposing parties will each pay half the cost of these proceedings.

Legal instructions:

The opposing parties and others affected by this decision may appeal to the Superior Administrative Court. This needs to be submitted in writng to the Hamburg Administrative Court within two weeks after this decision is issued. The same time limit applies to submitting an appeal to the Hamburg Superior Administrative Court.

The appeal is to be founded within one month after issue of the court's decision. ... [other legal instructions included]

Grounds:

The application for temporary restraining order is permissible (I.), but only in the tenor of visible circumstances (II.): in so far as the plaintiff has convinced the court that the court's regulation appears needed to avoid essential disadvantage.

I) The application is permissible.

The administrative court is open to the applicant's request for legal protection because a public legal dispute has been given.

In its response the defendent stated explicitly that Mrs. Caberta's statements in question were not regarded as off-duty personal statements of opinion, but that her statements on the "Stern TV" show, at a gathering in Frankfurt on October 26, 2002 and during an interview she granted "Die Welt" newspaper on October 29, 2002 were made exclusively in the exercise of her office as director of the Hamburg "Working Group Scientology."

Therefore this is only considered a claim for legal, public restraint whereby the plaintiff, as a legal person, can convince the court that the public statements made by defendent Mrs. Caberta are to be regarded as untrue, degrading assertions as fact, or correspondingly, derogatory assessments of its social claim. As a legal person, as well as a natural person, the plaintiff can claim the protection of honor as a component of general personality rights. Whether in addition to this the plaintiff, which describes itself as a "church," can claim the special protection of Aerticle 4 of the Constitution, will not be addressed further in the current proceedings.

2. The permissibility of the application does not contradict [this goes on for 20 pages. translation ends here.]

Partial Success for Scientology

Hamburger Abendblatt, January 22, 2003

Sect issues representative Ursula Caberta (52) may not repeat her critical statements about Scientology. The Hamburg Administrative Court decided this with a temporary restraining order. Caberta had asserted that the organization in Hamburg is bankrupt, and that the Kommission für Verstöße der Psychiatrie gegen Menschenrechte is a radical arm of Scientology. The main hearing for the case has not been held yet.

[At the main hearing the court found for Scientology on several of the six items. editor.]

From: Tilman Hausherr
Newsgroups: de.soc.weltanschauung.scientology
Subject: Re: Muzzle for Caberta
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 17:31:52 +0100

On 22 Jan 2003 04:51:53 -0800, hapcoll...@web.de (Zak) wrote in fc520430.0301220451.7eba8...@posting.google.com:

>Subject: Muzzle for Caberta

Once again missed the truth with mathematical accuracy.

http://www.menschenrechtsbuero.de/pdf/vg-hbg-21jan03.pdf
[partial translation above. editor]

Page 6, third paragraph.

No muzzle, instead each case must be checked.

Tilman

[Caberta actually did utter one of the forbidden statements in public one more time. Emphasis on one. ..editor.]

Scientology Victory

Sect issues representative of the Interior Office, Ursula Caberta, lost to the Scientology organization in court. The Hanseatic City's administrative court prohibited Caberta from repeating several statement critical of Scientology, e.g., saying that the organization is bankrupt.

taz Hamburg Nr. 6961 of January 23, 2003

From: Tilman Hausherr
Newsgroups: de.soc.weltanschauung.scientology
Subject: No Muzzle for Caberta
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:04:54 +0100

On 23 Jan 2003 04:38:01 -0800, hapcoll...@web.de (Zak) wrote in fc520430.0301230438.659e...@posting.google.com:

>Tilman Hausherr wrote in message news:jqht2vos79o9e4vbuq8ohp6rjq5f8b0o69@4ax.com...
>> On 22 Jan 2003 04:51:53 -0800, hapcoll...@web.de (Zak) wrote in
>> fc520430.0301220451.7eba8...@posting.google.com:
>>
>> >Subject: Muzzle for Caberta
>>
>> Once again missed the truth with mathematical accuracy.
>>
>> http://www.menschenrechtsbuero.de/pdf/vg-hbg-21jan03.pdf
>>
>> Page 6, third paragraph.
>>
>> No muzzle, rather each case must be checked.
>
>Once again you're digressing from the essential thing.

The "essential thing" is the judgment.

>Namely that Caberta's been
>bitch-slapped. Even taz bluntly talks
>about a "Scientology victory".

But not about a *muzzle* - because you only invented that. Not once did the newspaper write anything like that.

Too bad for you that Scientology published the decision itself. A bitch-slap for you, even if it wasn't meant that way.

>http://www.taz.de/pt/2003/01/23/a0284.nf/text

Tilman

From: Robert Schulze Lutum
Newsgroups: de.soc.weltanschauung.scientology
Subject: Re: Kein Maulkorb für Caberta
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:37:10 +0100

Tilman Hausherr wrote in article news:9i403vcscr05oif182loeop5nvrogfnvtk@4ax.com...
> On 23 Jan 2003 04:38:01 -0800, hapcoll...@web.de (Zak) wrote in fc520430.0301230438.659e...@posting.google.com:

> >Tilman Hausherr wrote in message news:jqht2vos79o9e4vbuq8ohp6rjq5f8b0o69@4ax.com...
> >> On 22 Jan 2003 04:51:53 -0800, hapcoll...@web.de (Zak) wrote in
> >> fc520430.0301220451.7eba8...@posting.google.com:
> >>
> >> >Subject: Muzzle for Caberta
> >>
> >> Once again missed the truth with mathematical accuracy.
> >>
> >> http://www.menschenrechtsbuero.de/pdf/vg-hbg-21jan03.pdf
> >>
> >> Page 6, third paragraph.
> >>
> >> No muzzle, rather each case must be checked.
> >
> >Once again you're digressing from the essential thing.

> The "essential thing" is the judgment.

> >Namely that Caberta's been
> >bitch-slapped. Even taz bluntly talks
> >about a "Scientology victory".

> But not about a *muzzle* - because you only invented that.
> Not once did the newspaper write anything like that.

> Too bad for you that Scientology published the decision itself.
> A bitch-slap for you, even if it wasn't meant that way.

LOL!

Caberta may no longer say certain things.
That fits the picture of a muzzle.
You been bitch-slapped, Tilman.

RSL

From: Zak
Newsgroups: de.soc.weltanschauung.scientology
Subject: Re: No muzzle for Caberta
Date: 25 Jan 2003 01:06:17 -0800

Sharky wrote in message news:RajY9.21973$VU6.19337@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
> Robert Schulze Lutum wrote in message
> news:b0qtve$h7a$03$1@news.t-online.com...
> > Tilman Hausherr wrote in article news:9i403vcscr05oif182loeop5nvrogfnvtk@4ax.com...
> On 23 Jan 2003 04:38:01 -0800, hapcoll...@web.de (Zak) wrote in fc520430.0301230438.659e...@posting.google.com:

> The "essential thing" is the judgment.

> >Namely that Caberta's been
> >bitch-slapped. Even taz bluntly talks
> >about a "Scientology victory".

> But not about a *muzzle* - because you only invented that.
> Not once did the newspaper write anything like that.

> Too bad for you that Scientology published the decision itself.
> A bitch-slap for you, even if it wasn't meant that way.

> > LOL!

> > Caberta may no longer say certain things.
> > That fits the picture of a muzzle.
> > You been bitch-slapped, Tilman.

> > RSL
> >
>
> I can testify to that. I could hear the noise from over here.

> I hope he doesn't have any permanent damage.

Ach, the usual Tilmanian diversionary tactic when he doesn't know what to do. I think he's not to be taken seriously.

Besides that I'm happy that the decision was published, whoever did it. This way you can read all the details about how this woman was bitch-slapped.

From: david bridge
Newsgroups: de.soc.weltanschauung.scientology
Subject: Re: Muzzle for Caberta
Date: 25 Jan 2003 01:50:25 -0800

hapcoll...@web.de (Zak) wrote in message news:...

>Once again you're digressing from the essential thing.
>Namely that Caberta's been bitch-slapped. Even taz bluntly talks
>about a "Scientology victory". > > http://www.taz.de/pt/2003/01/23/a0284.nf/text

No YOU are digressing from the essential thing, Zak.

$cientology is criminal, sick and dangerous!

If you expose $cientology details, you are "fair-gamed" by the slimy lawyers of the mafia-ufo-exorzismuss-fascho-kult-$cientology(tm) or stupidly spoken to by pseudo-intellectual wannabes like YOU Zak!

Every free-thinking person would feel like a dog on a leash. How do you feel, Zak?

And that thing about bitch-slapping smells to me a little bit too much like violence - a stink that reminds me of $cientology.(puke)

David Gesher

Much luck: www.xenu.net