From mike@psychassualt.org Thu Jan 23 22:19:32 2003 I've only pages 77-200. But it has never been posted before. With links http://www.whyaretheydead.net/lisa_mcpherson/legal/wood970211-12.html === 77 1 BY MR. WEINBERG: 2 Q Doctor Wood, did you obtain permission from 3 FDLE to use their offices for the Inside Edition 4 interview? 5 A Yes. 6 Q And from whom at FDLE did you get that 7 permission? 8 A Darrell McLaughlin. 9 Q And who is that? 10 MS. ANDERSON: What's his job, you mean? 11 MR. WEINBERG: Yeah. Who is it? 12 THE WITNESS: Well, there's Tim and Bob and 13 Jerry and Darrell are the higher-ups, Tim being the 14 boss. And Tim and Bob weren't there that day, so I 15 went to Darrell. And I think he's -- what do I want 16 to say? He's their liaison with legislature, but he 17 was the highest-ranking individual in the building 18 that day. 19 BY MR. WEINBERG: 20 Q And did you tell him what the purpose of 21 the interview was? 22 A Yes, that I was here in Tallahassee for a 23 meeting and happened to need to do an interview about a 24 case in my jurisdiction, and was it all right if I used 25 one of their generic conference rooms, and he said yes. TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 78 1 Q And did you tell him that FDLE was involved 2 in that investigation? 3 A No. I didn't even think about it. Yeah, I 4 probably did mention it. 5 Q And did FDLE have any objection to you 6 doing the interview at their headquarters? 7 A No. It was strictly under the 8 understanding that I just happened to be in 9 Tallahassee, and were I not in Tallahassee, it would 10 have been done somewhere else. 11 Q Now, what, if anything, did you review in 12 the way of files or records prior to the Inside Edition 13 interview? 14 A The autopsy report and all files that were 15 within my office. 16 Q And what did those files include? 17 A Everything I've indicated to you. 18 Q And so that would include lab results, 19 photos, stains, hospital records and the like? 20 A Yes. 21 Q Were you paid for the interview? 22 A No. 23 Q Was any kind of remuneration made on your 24 behalf as a result of the interview? 25 A No. And I didn't go out for dinner or for TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 79 1 drinks or anything thereafter. I didn't get one penny. 2 And I must comment that I may not have 3 reviewed the slides prior to that interview. I had 4 reviewed them. Doctor Davis, the pathologist actually 5 doing the autopsy, had asked to see them, and it's 6 possible that I had sent them to him immediately before 7 that. So it may have been a more remote review of the 8 slides, but I had seen them. 9 Q Okay. Did anyone from law enforcement, 10 FDLE, the state attorney, tell you, prior to the 11 interview, that they were concerned that you might be 12 compromising the investigation into the death of Lisa 13 McPherson by doing the interview? 14 A No. 15 (Whereupon, Exhibit Number 3 so marked by the 16 reporter.) 17 BY MR. WEINBERG: 18 Q Let me show you what I've had marked as 19 Exhibit 3. Did you watch the show that aired? 20 A Yes. 21 Q And do you have a pretty good recollection, 22 of that which aired, of your comments from the 23 hour-and-fifteen-minute interview? 24 A Yes. 25 Q Well, let me review with you this TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 80 1 transcript, which is Exhibit 3. And, you know, if you 2 have a problem with it, we have the tape here and we 3 can listen to it, but I believe the transcript, you 4 know, fairly accurately sets forth what you were asked 5 and what you said. 6 A From a quick look, that appears correct. 7 Q Okay. If you go to Page Number 4, if you 8 just -- here, let me see that just for a second. 9 A Uh-huh. 10 Q Right -- yeah, right here (indicating). 11 A Uh-huh. 12 Q You state, quote, "This is the most severe 13 case of dehydration I've ever seen." And that -- you 14 said something to that effect during the interview, is 15 that right? 16 A Yes. 17 Q What public records did you base that 18 statement on? 19 A Laboratory tests of vitreous fluids. 20 Q Anything else? 21 A Appearance of her body. 22 Q That's from the photos? 23 A No. As I told you, I saw her body. 24 Q Any particular part? You mean the skin, is 25 that what you're talking about? TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 81 1 A All of her body, the dried mucous 2 membranes, the consistency of her skin, the laboratory 3 values, considering particularly that this was a 4 previously healthy thirty-six-year-old female. 5 Q What public records exist that support this 6 conclusion that you stated on Inside Edition? 7 MS. ANDERSON: Asked and answered. 8 MR. WEINBERG: No, that's a different 9 question, Pat. I asked her what she based it on, but 10 I'm also asking her what, if anything, is in the 11 file, her public file, that supports that conclusion. 12 THE WITNESS: Same answer. 13 BY MR. WEINBERG: 14 Q But the photographs as well, correct? 15 A The photographs aren't necessary. 16 Q I didn't ask you what's necessary. What 17 else exists as to what her body looks like today? What 18 exists in your file that would show us what that body 19 appeared like, other than the photographs? 20 A The entire description of the autopsy 21 protocol and the laboratory test results. 22 Q Right. But assuming that someone wanted to 23 test the validity of that description, one could look 24 at the photographs, is that right, and the lab results? 25 A Yes. TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 82 1 Q Now, if you -- is there any reference 2 anywhere in your public files that this is the most 3 severe case of dehydration you've ever seen? 4 A No. 5 Q Is "dried mucous membranes" in the autopsy 6 report? 7 MS. ANDERSON: Objection; the autopsy report 8 speaks for itself. 9 MR. WEINBERG: What I'm asking you is, you 10 described the condition of her skin and the dried 11 mucous membranes. And the question is: Is that set 12 forth in the protocol? 13 THE WITNESS: Crusted brown dried material is 14 present within the mouth, on the lips. 15 BY MR. WEINBERG: 16 Q Anywhere else, or is that it? 17 A Crusted blood within the nares. 18 Q The what? 19 A Crusted blood within the nares, crusted 20 brown dried material within the mouth, on the lips. 21 That's: Within the mouth, comma, on the lips, 22 semicolon, crusted, parentheses, dried, end 23 parentheses, material is present on the eyelids. 24 Q Okay. Now, did you discuss the conclusions 25 that you put on the first page of your autopsy report, TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 83 1 as to severe dehydration and bed rest, with Doctor 2 Davis prior to issuing it? 3 A Not immediately prior to issuing it, but 4 prior to his leaving our office, yes. 5 Q Is there anything -- is there any document 6 in your file that was generated by Doctor Davis or 7 anyone other than you that would be -- that would 8 indicate some disagreement as to the cause of death, 9 the proximate cause of death? 10 A No. 11 Q Now, at the time that you gave this 12 interview on January, I think you said, 13th, 1997, had 13 the additional testing been done? 14 A No. 15 Q When was that testing done? 16 A I would have to look at the file. 17 Q I mean, the 13th wasn't that long ago. So 18 somewhere in the last month, is that what you're 19 saying? 20 A Yes. Probably within a week after that. 21 Q At the time you talked to the St. Pete 22 Times and the Tampa Tribune, following the Inside 23 Edition story, had this additional testing been done? 24 A No. 25 Q Is there a draft of the autopsy report and TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 84 1 protocol in the file that is different from this final 2 Report of Autopsy? 3 MS. ANDERSON: Objection; asked and answered. 4 MR. WEINBERG: Just go ahead and answer. 5 THE WITNESS: I'd have to go back and review 6 the file, but not that I recall. The only thing that 7 would be different would be that Doctor Davis 8 probably did a provisional anatomic diagnoses, which 9 I then changed to final. Or he did a final and I 10 changed it to put it out under my signature, 11 whichever. 12 BY MR. WEINBERG: 13 Q Did you change his protocol in any way? 14 A No. That is his wording. 15 Q Okay. If you go to -- further down on Page 16 4 -- strike that. 17 Was there an anatomy chart that was done by 18 either you or Doctor Davis with regard to the autopsy? 19 A He may have. I did not. 20 Q Is that in the file? 21 A It would be if he did one, yes. 22 Q Is there some sort of a questionnaire that 23 is done, or was done by Doctor Davis in this case, with 24 regard to the autopsy? 25 A I don't specifically recall. He sometimes TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 85 1 did a kind of check-off list, and also an anatomic 2 diagram. I don't recall whether he did in this case or 3 not. 4 Q If he did, would it still be in the file? 5 A Yes. 6 Q Were all notes maintained in the file? 7 A Yes. 8 Q You don't have any policy of throwing stuff 9 away? 10 A No. 11 Q With regard to Doctor Davis' file, is there 12 anything in his personnel file that was withheld from 13 us in our Public Records Act Request? 14 A No. 15 Q Nothing that you assert any kind of 16 privilege as to? 17 A No. 18 Q If you go to right below, on Page 4 of 19 Exhibit 3, where you said, "This is the most severe 20 case of dehydration I've ever seen," the reporter says, 21 "Doctor Joan Wood, the Pinellas medical examiner, spoke 22 to us after we interviewed Mr. Abelson. Doctor Wood 23 says while dying of a blood clot is a natural cause, 24 what led up to it, Lisa's severe dehydration, was not." 25 Did you say that to him -- TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 86 1 A Yes. 2 Q -- during your interview? 3 A Yes. 4 Q Did you tell him during the interview with 5 him that you had concluded that she had died of 6 unnatural causes? 7 A Undetermined. 8 Q Well, I'm asking you "unnatural." 9 A I used the term "undetermined." 10 Q It goes on to say, "She says tests 11 performed during the autopsy indicate Lisa McPherson 12 went at least five days without liquids." 13 And then he asked you, "Five days you think 14 she went without liquids?" 15 And you said, "I think five to ten is 16 reasonable. It may have been seventeen." 17 Did you say that? 18 A Yes. 19 Q What public records did you base that 20 statement on that she went five to ten, maybe 21 seventeen, without water? 22 MS. ANDERSON: Asked and answered. 23 MR. WEINBERG: Go ahead. 24 THE WITNESS: The laboratory test results. 25 BY MR. WEINBERG: TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 87 1 Q You're talking about the vitreous fluids? 2 A Yes. 3 Q Any other public record that exists that 4 supports that conclusion? 5 A No. 6 Q And, you know, when I say "public record," 7 I mean record in your file, setting aside any issue as 8 to exemption. Do you understand that? 9 A No. 10 Q Well, then I'm going to ask the questions 11 again. What I'm asking you is: Do you agree that your 12 files are public records? 13 A When they are not part of an active 14 criminal investigation, yes. 15 Q Well, they're public records, and then the 16 question is whether or not there's an exemption that 17 allows you to delay making them available, correct? 18 A Yes. 19 Q Okay. Now, with regard to the issue from 20 your statements as to severe dehydration and five to 21 ten days, up to seventeen without water, my question 22 is: What records from your file, putting aside any 23 exemption, did you base that statement on? 24 A The records you have. 25 Q The vitreous fluids? TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 88 1 A Yes. 2 Q And what public records exist, what records 3 exist from your file that would support that 4 conclusion? 5 A Additional tests which corroborate it. 6 Q These are the ones that were done recently? 7 A Yes. 8 Q Okay. If you go to Page 5, in the middle, 9 Mr. Meagher says, "You don't deteriorate the way Lisa 10 McPherson did in a day or two, do you?" 11 And you say, "No, absolutely not." 12 Did you say that? 13 A That's correct. 14 Q What public records, in other words, 15 records from your file, did you base that on or exist 16 that would support that statement? 17 A The autopsy protocol, the cause of death, 18 and all the laboratory tests that were performed. 19 Q And that would be tests beyond just the 20 vitreous fluids, is that right? 21 A The vitreous fluids in and of themselves 22 would answer that, but yes, in addition, additional 23 other tests. 24 Q What deterioration were you talking about? 25 A From normal to dead. TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 89 1 Q Well, I mean, are you talking about weight, 2 are you talking about appearance? I mean, what do you 3 mean? 4 A I'm talking about from normal to death. 5 Q Well, I mean, I could die right now, right? 6 A But you wouldn't have Lisa McPherson's body 7 chemistries were you to die right this second, unless 8 you are a profoundly ill individual unconscious, and 9 I'm not sensing that, unless you're a better lawyer 10 than I thought you were. 11 MR. WEINBERG: Well, hopefully I'm better than 12 you think I am, but I'm not unconscious. 13 MS. ANDERSON: I don't sense any 14 unconciousness either, Sandy. 15 BY MR. WEINBERG: 16 Q But when you talk in terms of dehydration, 17 you're talking about -- I mean, in terms of 18 deterioration, you're talking about things like 19 dehydration? 20 A Yes. 21 Q Things like loss of body weight? 22 A Yes. 23 Q What other sorts of things are you talking 24 about? 25 A Aberrations of mental function from TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 90 1 confusion to disorientation to loss of consciousness, 2 excessive thirst, low urine output, a craving for 3 liquids. She's got some significant bruises on her 4 that probably, probably came about from falling about. 5 Mr. Abelson says she was hitting the wall with her 6 fists. That's not exactly normal. 7 But we have a woman who has to go from 8 walking, talking, driving a vehicle, having a minor 9 motor vehicle accident, following which she's seen at a 10 hospital, examined and found to be physically fit, to 11 dead in seventeen days. And this doesn't happen, based 12 on the chemistries and the findings in her body, in the 13 one day before her death. 14 Q If you go to Page 6 of the -- of Exhibit 3, 15 toward the bottom, you say, "I spend some time in 16 court, as you can imagine --" 17 A You're not on six. 18 Q I just moved to six. In other words, I 19 told you to go to Page 6. 20 A I'm on six. 21 MR. WEINBERG: Oh, I see. I got it up here. 22 My copy is -- Page 8 of the exhibit. 23 MS. ANDERSON: What is it, eight? 24 MR. WEINBERG: Yeah. 25 BY MR. WEINBERG: TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 91 1 Q "I spend some time in court, as you can 2 imagine, and so I'm very careful with my wording, and 3 my wording would be this: From the time that Lisa 4 McPherson died, backward twenty-four to forty-eight 5 hours, she was unconcious." 6 The reporter, "Comatose unconscious?" 7 You, "Yes." 8 Is that what you said? 9 A Yes. 10 Q Now, what public records did you base that 11 on and what public records exist, in other words, 12 records in your file, to support that conclusion? 13 A Vitreous chemistries. 14 Q And were you being careful with your 15 wording there? 16 A Yes. 17 Q And why were you being careful with your 18 wording? 19 A The reporter had just said to me at that 20 point, having previously asked me how long I thought 21 Lisa had been unconscious, with my having given a reply 22 of twenty-four to forty-eight hours, a question along 23 the lines of, "So, for the forty-eight hours before 24 Lisa got to the hospital, she was unconscious?" And I 25 said, "I spend some time in court, as you can imagine, TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 92 1 and so I am very careful with my wording, and my 2 wording would be this: From the time that Lisa 3 McPherson died, backward twenty-four to forty-eight 4 hours, she was unconscious." 5 Q And when you said "unconscious," you meant 6 comatose unconscious? 7 A There's no other definition. 8 Q Okay. So "unconscious," to a layman like 9 me, means that you are essentially what would amount to 10 being asleep; you're not responding to anything? 11 A Well, or staring at the ceiling with your 12 eyes wide open breathing heavily; unresponsive to 13 anyone passing a hand over your eyes, for instance. 14 Q Okay. If you go further down on that page, 15 the reporter says, "After she was pronounced dead, 16 Doctor Minkoff, the emergency room physician, who's 17 also a member of the church, drew blood from Lisa and 18 had it tested. The test results show a staph infection 19 which church officials say could explain Lisa's rapid 20 deterioration and her death." 21 And you say, "She did not die of an 22 overwhelming staph infection." 23 And he says, "Did a staph infection 24 contribute or cause the blood clot?" 25 And you say, "No, no." TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 93 1 Is that what you said? 2 A Yes. 3 Q Now, what public records did you base that 4 statement on and what public records exist, in other 5 words, records from your file exist to support your 6 statement that the staph infection neither caused nor 7 contributed to the death of Lisa McPherson? 8 A She didn't have a catastrophic decline. 9 She didn't have a rapid deterioration. That's based 10 from the lab tests. And she has no nidus of infection 11 to have caused her to have a staph infection. 12 Q What do you mean, no rapid deterioration 13 based on the lab test? What's that mean? 14 A Well, if you've got someone who is a 15 specialist, they will explain to you that those 16 laboratory values are not consistent with someone who 17 crashed and died in twelve hours or twenty-four hours. 18 Q You're talking about the vitreous fluids? 19 A Yes. 20 Q And what is the nidus? 21 A Site. 22 Q Site of infection? 23 A (Nodding affirmatively.) 24 Q In other words, some organ that would 25 indicate an infection? TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 94 1 A Right. 2 Q All right. Did -- during the autopsy, was 3 the heart opened up and looked into for infection, do 4 you know? 5 A Yes. 6 Q And is that in the autopsy report? 7 A The heart was examined, as every heart in 8 every autopsy we do is examined. 9 Q But does the autopsy report indicate that 10 the heart was examined for infection, do you know? 11 A We examined the heart. We look at sections 12 of the heart under the microscope. Infection of the 13 heart, of the valves of the heart is something visible 14 to the naked eye. Infection of the muscle, the heart 15 is visible under the microscope. Neither site showed 16 infection. 17 Q Do you continue to have sections from all 18 the organs? 19 A Yes. 20 Q And those are sections that could be looked 21 at by our experts? 22 A Yes -- 23 Q Is there any -- 24 A -- when the public records issue is 25 resolved. TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 95 1 Q Right. Are there any organs, major organs 2 that were not sectioned and preserved? 3 A Maybe not pancreas. I'd have to go back 4 and look. 5 Q Would the autopsy report audit indicate 6 what was sectioned? 7 A No. We don't normally do that. We retain 8 sections of major organs: heart, lungs, kidneys, 9 brain, liver. I always take spleen. It just depends 10 upon the pathologist. 11 Q How about the intestines, the stomach? 12 A No. We don't retain or take sections of 13 those. 14 Q Now, you also -- right after that statement 15 I just read, Mr. Meagher says, "Doctor Wood says she 16 can't explain the cuts and bruises on Lisa's body. 17 They may have been from falls before she was comatose." 18 Now, you do recall talking to him about the 19 cuts and bruises? 20 A Yeah. 21 Q And what public records, what records did 22 you base your statements on, and what in the file 23 exists as to those cuts and bruises? 24 MS. ANDERSON: Which statements, Sandy? 25 MR. WEINBERG: The statement -- well, you TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 96 1 weren't here, but she went through a long dialogue 2 about her recollection of what is outside this 3 transcript of what she talked to Mr. Meagher about. 4 What I'm asking you: With regard to your 5 conversation with Mr. Meagher about the cuts and 6 bruises, what records did you base your statements on 7 and what records exist as to document those cuts and 8 bruises in your file? 9 THE WITNESS: The written autopsy protocol, 10 the photographs, and some microscopic sections. 11 BY MR. WEINBERG: 12 Q And the microscopic sections still exist? 13 A Yes. And I think they're of various 14 injuries on the body. I didn't go back and catalog 15 them in my mind to specifically say exactly which skin 16 abnormalities were kept as tissue blocks, but there are 17 some. 18 Q Okay. Were there any tissue blocks done of 19 the so-called bites, insect bites? 20 A I believe so, yes. 21 Q And those still exist? 22 A Yes. 23 Q And are there photos that exist of the 24 so-called insect bites? 25 A Yes. TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 97 1 Q And those still exist? 2 A Yes. 3 Q Now, if you go to the next page, which 4 would be the last page, at the top of it there is a 5 statement from Mr. Abelson about insect bites, and then 6 you're quoted as saying, "No, they're not mosquito 7 bites. They appear to me to be cockroach bites." 8 And then you were asked, "How could Lisa 9 McPherson sit there and let cockroaches bite her while 10 she's laying in bed?" 11 The answer is, "If she's comatose it can 12 happen and she doesn't know it and doesn't react to 13 it." 14 Were you asked those things and are those 15 your statements? 16 A Yes. 17 Q What public records did you rely on in 18 making those statements, and what public records exist, 19 in other words, records from your file exist with 20 regard to what you have described as cockroach bites? 21 A Descriptions in the autopsy protocol, and 22 photographs. 23 Q What about the sections from the bites? 24 A I'm hesitant to be specific with regard to 25 the sections. I know there are sections of skin TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 98 1 abnormalities. I believe at least one of those is of 2 one of these bite regions, but I didn't check those 3 before I came here today. 4 Q Does someone have to be comatose or dead in 5 order to be bit by a cockroach? 6 A No. There are well-documented cases of 7 infants and small children being bitten by cockroaches. 8 Q And is there a particular journal or 9 article that documents this? 10 A Well, I'm sure there's documentation in the 11 journals. I would suggest a forensic entomologist. 12 Q Was there any that you relied on in drawing 13 the conclusion, based on looking at the body and 14 looking at the photographs, that these were likely 15 cockroach bites? 16 A No. I have a forensic entomologist with 17 whom I work, but he is in Indiana and he's never seen 18 these photographs. 19 Q What's his name? 20 A Neil Haskell (phonetic). 21 Q And is he in some medical examiner office 22 or -- 23 A No. He's a forensic entomologist who does 24 some -- I think some teaching at Michigan State, and is 25 on a doctoral fellowship for a fellow at the University TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 99 1 of Florida, but who does forensic entomology. 2 Q Now, has he participated at all in the 3 autopsy? 4 A No. 5 Q Now, were you talking about premortem or 6 postmortem cockroach bites when you addressed this with 7 the Inside Edition? 8 A Premortem. 9 Q Now, following the Inside Edition 10 interview, you did do interviews with both the St. Pete 11 Times and the Tampa Tribune, is that right? 12 A Yes. 13 Q And where did those interviews take place? 14 A One by telephone, Tampa Tribune; the other 15 in my library, St. Pete Times. 16 Q Well, let's take the St. Pete Times first. 17 Who was present for that interview? 18 A Tom Tobin and I. 19 Q Any other person? 20 A No. 21 Q Did you talk to Wayne Andrews, Mr. -- Agent 22 Strope or anybody from the State Attorney's Office 23 before doing the Tom Tobin interview? 24 A No. 25 Q So you didn't ask their permission? TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 100 1 A No. 2 Q Did you get any reaction from Wayne Andrews 3 to your Inside Edition appearance after it aired? 4 A Not that I recall. 5 Q Did anybody from the state attorney or from 6 the Clearwater Police Department or FDLE instruct you, 7 after seeing those interviews, not to do any further 8 interviews? 9 A No. 10 Q Did there come a time when you quit doing 11 interviews with regard to this case? 12 A Yes. 13 Q When was that? 14 A After the interviews to the St. Pete Times 15 and the Tampa Tribune. 16 Q And why did you quit doing interviews? 17 A At the request of the State Attorney's 18 Office. 19 Q Who from the State Attorney's Office? 20 A Doug Crow. 21 Q And when did that request come 22 specifically, do you remember? 23 A The day after the -- or the day the Tribune 24 and Times articles aired. 25 Q Was this by phone or in person? TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 101 1 A By phone. 2 Q And was there a letter that followed it up? 3 A No. 4 Q And what -- 5 A Not that I've seen, anyway. 6 Q And did he give a reason why he didn't want 7 you to give any more interviews? 8 A My interpretation, just that further 9 publicity might have an adverse effect upon the 10 investigation. 11 Q And did he tell you that, or is that what 12 you -- 13 A That's -- I don't remember his exact words. 14 Q Well, did you tell him that you were your 15 own independent person and that you thought that the 16 public had a right to know the truth about this? Did 17 you tell him that? 18 A No. I started the conversation by saying 19 that I was not planning to do any more interviews. 20 That was my statement to him when he called or I called 21 him back, whatever it was. I said, "I just wanted you 22 to know I do not plan to do any more interviews." 23 And my best recollection, he said, "Well, 24 good, because I think it might cause problems." I 25 don't know. Something like that. TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 102 1 Q Okay. Did -- when you got the Public 2 Records Act Request from us -- do you recall getting 3 that request? 4 A Yes. 5 Q Who participated in the decision whether to 6 produce or not produce records? 7 A I did. 8 Q That was your decision? 9 A Yes. 10 Q Why did you not give us access to the 11 autopsy report? 12 A Error on my part. 13 Q What do you mean by that? 14 A It was simply an error on my part in 15 communicating to my staff. I can't remember the exact 16 words. It was just one of those cross-communications. 17 Q So you should have given us the autopsy 18 report? 19 A Yes. The autopsy report, as of October 20 30th, should have been given to you. 21 Q And why should it have been given to us as 22 of October 30th, 1996? 23 A Because it had been made public, and it was 24 that which was ready to be mailed to you when you filed 25 suit. TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 103 1 MR. WEINBERG: If you would mark this as 2 exhibit -- the next exhibit, Exhibit 4. 3 (Whereupon, Exhibit Number 4 so marked by the 4 reporter.) 5 MS. ANDERSON: Sandy, are you going to go much 6 further? Because Mr. Bedore is upstairs. 7 MR. WEINBERG: Yes. 8 MS. ANDERSON: I think you had him set for 9 3:30. 10 MR. WEINBERG: Well, you know, we had him set 11 for whenever we got through with Doctor Wood, but -- 12 THE WITNESS: Well, he's my ride, so it 13 doesn't make any difference. 14 MR. RAHDERT: How long do you want to go 15 today? 16 MR. WEINBERG: As long as you'll go. 17 THE WITNESS: Well, if you're anticipating 18 being -- I mean, I have a bad back. I just simply 19 can't sit for -- 20 MR. WEINBERG: All right. Well, why don't we 21 go until five, and then if we're not done, we'll 22 finish tommorrow. 23 THE WITNESS: Okay. 24 (Off the record discussion.) 25 BY MR. WEINBERG: TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 104 1 Q Do you recognize Exhibit 4 as the Public 2 Records Request that we made? 3 A Yeah, I guess. 4 Q And then -- 5 A You better ask Mr. Bedore. 6 MR. WEINBERG: Well, let me just show you 7 Exhibit 5. You can mark this. 8 (Whereupon, Exhibit Number 5 so marked by the 9 reporter.) 10 BY MR. WEINBERG: 11 Q Do you recognize Exhibit 5 as your letter, 12 your response to me signed by you in response to my 13 January 9th request? 14 A Right. 15 Q And if you look at that, in your response 16 you say, "Regarding all materials relating to the case 17 of Lisa McPherson, including access to review and 18 reanalyze any physical specimens, you are welcome to 19 inspect or copy any of that material at a mutually 20 agreeable date on or after such time when the case is 21 no longer considered to be an active criminal 22 investigation." 23 That's what you said, right? 24 A Right. 25 Q And so at that time, you did not give us TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 105 1 anything from your file other than the personnel file 2 of Doctor Davis, is that right? 3 A That's correct. And as I've indicated to 4 you, that was an error. And the second letter was 5 coming to you with a copy of the autopsy report. 6 Q All right. Now, this second letter, who 7 dictated -- when was this second letter dictated? 8 MS. ANDERSON: Objection; vague. What second 9 letter? 10 MR. WEINBERG: Well, I mean, you want to mark 11 this? 12 MS. ANDERSON: Which exhibit? 13 MR. WEINBERG: First of all, let the record 14 make very clear that I haven't received any second 15 letter. 16 And did you send me another letter? 17 THE WITNESS: No, because of the lawsuit. 18 MR. WEINBERG: All right. Well, let's mark 19 this as Exhibit 6. 20 (Whereupon, Exhibit Number 6 so marked by the 21 reporter.) 22 BY MR. WEINBERG: 23 Q That was handed to me by your attorney 24 today. That is a letter that you dictated but never 25 sent? TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 106 1 A That is correct. And that was written on 2 Tuesday, January 28th. Pat had told us to hold -- 3 MS. ANDERSON: Wait, wait, wait. 4 THE WITNESS: Oh, excuse me. Okay. We were 5 going to wait and file the -- respond on Wednesday 6 the 29th. We were going to include a copy of the 7 autopsy report, but the lawsuit was filed. 8 BY MR. WEINBERG: 9 Q Now, why were you going to send this 10 letter? 11 A May I see the letter again? 12 Q Yeah. 13 A Number one, to include the autopsy report; 14 and number two, to let you know that certain items you 15 were requesting fell within the purview of physical 16 evidence. 17 Q What do you mean by that? 18 A Vitreous fluid, blood, body tissues, the 19 toxicology specimens are physical evidence. 20 Q Okay. Where in here does it say you're 21 sending me the autopsy report? Could you tell me that? 22 A It doesn't, but I am telling you it was to 23 be included with it. 24 Q Well, there's nothing on here that has an 25 enclosure, right? TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 107 1 A (Nodding affirmatively.) 2 Q Is that right? 3 A Yes. But we had clearly decided at that 4 point that you were entitled to the autopsy report. I 5 had spoken with my attorneys. It was to be taken care 6 of. 7 Q Is there any particular reason why, in the 8 answer that y'all filed, there's no indication that 9 you're going to turn over the autopsy report? 10 A It's the drafting of my attorney. I didn't 11 read it carefully. 12 Q Did you read it before it was filed? 13 A I'm sorry? 14 Q Did you read it before it was filed? 15 A Before what was filed? 16 Q Did you read the answer in the pleadings 17 that are contained in Exhibit 2 before they were filed? 18 A Yes. 19 Q So you approved them? 20 A Yes. 21 MR. WEINBERG: And let me show you the -- what 22 we'll have marked as the next exhibit, which is 23 seven. 24 (Whereupon, Exhibit No. 7 so marked by the 25 reporter.) TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 108 1 BY MR. WEINBERG: 2 Q Do you recognize Exhibit 7 as a letter that 3 I sent to you on January 22nd, 1997? 4 A Yeah. 5 Q And did you review that letter? 6 A Yeah. 7 Q Did you discuss that letter with somebody 8 from the State Attorney's Office? 9 A No. Other than Marie King. 10 Q And what was the nature of that discussion? 11 A To let Marie know what the nature of my 12 very specific rules had been with regard to the media, 13 Inside Edition, St. Pete Times and Tampa Tribune. 14 Q Did anyone from the State Attorney's Office 15 instruct you or advise you not to release records 16 pursuant to our Public Records Act Request, which is 17 contained in Exhibit 4, my January 9th, 1997 letter? 18 A I got the same letter you did from them. 19 Q Well, do you interpret the letter the way I 20 do, that it didn't instruct you as to how to respond to 21 my request? 22 A That's the way I interpret it. 23 Q So the decision that you made with regard 24 to asserting a law enforcement exemption was your own 25 decision, not influenced by anything that was said to TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 109 1 you by Wayne Andrews, Clearwater PD, FDLE, or the State 2 Attorney's Office, is that right? 3 A No. It was uninfluenced by anything said 4 to me by -- or written by the State Attorney's Office. 5 Q Did Wayne Andrews from the Clearwater 6 Police Department tell you not to turn over any files 7 to us? 8 A Wayne Andrews of the Clearwater Police 9 Department and Special Agent Lee Strope of the 10 Clearwater -- of the Florida Department of Law 11 Enforcement both told me this was an ongoing criminal 12 investigation with subpoenas to be cut. 13 Q Well, did they make a statement as to 14 whether or not you should or should not release public 15 records from your files regarding the autopsy? 16 A We seem to have a communication problem 17 here. You asked me what they said. I told you what 18 they said. They didn't tell me not to release it; they 19 didn't tell me to release it. They told me there was 20 an ongoing criminal investigation. I heard that both 21 from Sergeant Andrews and from Special Agent Strope. 22 Q But you had heard that almost a month 23 before when you released the autopsy report, correct? 24 A No, I did not hear that. You 25 misunderstand. TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 110 1 Q Well, let's make it clear then. How long 2 after the autopsy report was issued did either Sergeant 3 Andrews or Agent Strope talk to you about there being 4 an ongoing criminal investigation? 5 A Neither spoke with me. Sergeant Andrews 6 spoke with Mr. Bedore. 7 Q How long after it was released -- 8 A You'll have to ask Mr. Bedore. I don't 9 have the date. 10 Q Well, you are aware, are you not, that both 11 Sergeant Andrews and Wayne Shelor from the Clearwater 12 Police Department also have talked to the press with 13 regard to this so-called ongoing investigation, 14 correct? 15 A Yes. And it's not so-called; it's ongoing. 16 I'm involved in it. 17 Q All right. 18 A I believe it was around the first part of 19 December, but I can't give you a date. Mr. Bedore 20 perhaps can. 21 Q Do you recall that after that conversation 22 between Clearwater police and your department about 23 there being an ongoing investigation, more or less 24 probably at the beginning of December, do you recall 25 that after that time both Sergeant Andrews and Mr. TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 111 1 Shelor from the Clearwater Police Department talked to 2 the press with regard to this investigation? 3 A I don't recall. It makes me no never mind. 4 MR. WEINBERG: And let me have marked as a -- 5 this is -- oh, I see the way this is. Let me just 6 have this marked as a composite exhibit. 7 (Whereupon, Exhibit Number 8 so marked by the 8 reporter.) 9 BY MR. WEINBERG: 10 Q Now, what I've shown you is a series of 11 articles that are marked as Exhibit 8. And without 12 belaboring the articles, I think if you look at them, 13 you'll see that throughout the articles, there are 14 quotations from the Clearwater Police Department. For 15 example, on the first article, which is the Tampa 16 Tribune article, which is the first article on this 17 December 15th, 1996, at the bottom of the first page, 18 the headline page -- 19 A Wait, what's the headline? 20 Q Tampa Tribune, "Mystery Surrounds 21 Scientologist's Death." 22 A Okay. 23 Q At the bottom of the first page it says, 24 "An autopsy by the --" by your office, "showed 25 McPherson's five-foot-nine, one-hundred-and-eight-pound TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 112 1 body was severely dehydrated. Her arms and legs were 2 bruised. Her skin was cracked and scaling. Her left 3 pulmonary artery was blocked by a fatal blood clot 4 brought on by dehydration and bed rest. The Clearwater 5 Police Department doesn't think she died of natural 6 causes said spokesman Wayne Shelor." 7 And then further down in the article, 8 Sergeant Andrews talks about witnesses and how he 9 thinks that one's in Switzerland and one's in Germany. 10 And then on the last page of the article, Larry Bedore 11 is quoted, from your office, as saying that he was 12 quote, "not aware of any blood tests being done or even 13 McPherson's blood being drawn at the hospital." That's 14 with regard to the staph infection. I take it he was 15 just incorrect when he said that? 16 A Well, he's the director of operations. I 17 mean, the fact that he doesn't know what's going on 18 within the inner workings of a given case isn't 19 surprising. 20 Q All right. Then if you go to the one, I 21 guess, that's on the front of yours, which is the St. 22 Pete Times for December 17th, 1996, again at the 23 beginning of it, the third paragraph, "Police point to 24 an autopsy by," your office, "which says," and it 25 describes the autopsy and describes your findings. And TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 113 1 then at the bottom it again quotes Sergeant Andrews and 2 it goes on to some length about that. 3 And then if you go to the next document, 4 which is a Channel 8 news document, you'll see that 5 Wayne Shelor appeared on a newscast and is quoted in 6 the fifth paragraph there, "Wayne Shelor, Clearwater 7 investigators have worked closely with Pinellas-Pasco 8 Medical Examiner's Office and it is their belief that 9 Lisa McPherson did not die of natural causes." 10 And my question to you is: Did you 11 understand that to be that that was your belief or the 12 cops' belief? 13 A What? 14 Q Do you know what Wayne Shelor was talking 15 about? 16 MS. ANDERSON: Where are you, Sandy? I'm 17 confused. 18 MR. WEINBERG: I think Doctor Wood knows where 19 I am, the Channel 8 news. 20 THE WITNESS: Clearwater Police Department has 21 been told by us at this point in time that the death 22 of Lisa McPherson is wholely unexplained by the 23 information that's been provided to us thus far. Her 24 death is at this point undetermined, may well be 25 ruled a homicide, that she is -- this woman should TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 114 1 not be dead and that an incredible amount of work 2 needs to be done to investigate this death. 3 BY MR. WEINBERG: 4 Q All right. If you go to the last document 5 in that exhibit, which is a transcript of a December 6 17th, 1996 WFLA show which Mr. Shelor, the police 7 person, appeared on, if you look at the second page of 8 it, Mr. Shelor says, quote, "Well, when she showed up 9 in another county, having been taken from Clearwater to 10 another county and she was pronounced dead on arrival, 11 there are certain methods and investigations that are 12 prompted because of the circumstances. This began as 13 an unattended death. The Pinellas-Pasco Medical 14 Examiner's Office determined a number of things which 15 conclude essentially that this young lady did not die 16 of natural causes." 17 And then he goes on in the next paragraph, 18 "Ah, one of the attorneys says that strep infection 19 caused it. The Pinellas-Pasco Medical Examiner's 20 Office is familiar with that and says no, that didn't 21 cause her death at all, that she died as a result of 22 pulmonary embolism brought on by severe dehydration as 23 a result of bed rest." 24 My question to you is: Did -- was there 25 any discussion with Mr. Shelor, Sergeant Andrews, or TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 115 1 Mr. Strope as to an agreement or a strategy amongst 2 y'all to generate press starting in December 1996 with 3 regard to this ongoing investigation? 4 A No. 5 Q Now back to the St. Pete Times. Mr. Tobin 6 did an interview and he did it in the library of your 7 offices, is that right? 8 A Yes. 9 Q How many sessions did you have with him? 10 A One. 11 Q And was -- I can't remember if you answered 12 this or not. I apologize, but was anybody else there 13 other than you? 14 A No, he and I. 15 Q So there was no other witness to the 16 interview? 17 A No. 18 Q Did he take notes? 19 A Yes. 20 Q Did you take notes? 21 A No. 22 Q What did he ask you and what did you say to 23 him? 24 A I have a great deal more difficulty 25 recalling that conversation than I do the one with Matt TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 116 1 Meagher. His interview that was in the newspaper was 2 accurate. Beyond that, with any specificity, he asked 3 me if five to ten days was reasonable; I said it was 4 defensible. 5 I'm sorry, I just don't remember. 6 Q How long did the interview last 7 approximately? 8 A Thirty minutes maybe, maybe forty-five. 9 Q And when he called you up, what did he tell 10 you that he wanted to talk about? 11 A The death of Lisa McPherson. 12 Q Did he say that he had seen the Inside 13 Edition show? 14 A I don't recall. 15 Q And did you put any restrictions on the 16 interview? 17 A I told him to bring the autopsy report with 18 him. I wasn't going to give him a copy. 19 Q And why is that, since it was a public 20 record? 21 A Just abundance of caution. And that he 22 couldn't see any other records. And I don't -- I'm 23 very able to set restrictions as we go along in the 24 discussion, so -- 25 Q Well, the one thing I really -- if you TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 117 1 could explain to me, what -- why did you need an 2 abundance of caution as to whether or not to produce 3 what you say is a public record? 4 A Nothing more than that, abundance of 5 caution. 6 Q And when did the interview with him take 7 place, what day? 8 A What day did the newspaper article air? 9 Q It aired on the 23rd. 10 A The 22nd. 11 Q Well, that is two weeks after I made my 12 first -- I made my request for public documents, 13 correct? I made a request on January 9th, 1997, for 14 your records, right? 15 A Right. 16 Q And you sent me a response on January 10th, 17 right? 18 A Right. 19 Q And this interview didn't take place until 20 January 22nd? 21 A Right. 22 Q But you've said that you intended to 23 produce to me, and it was just an error, the autopsy 24 report, right? 25 A I have told you that included with the last TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 118 1 communication to you would have been a copy of the 2 autopsy report, because we had looked more carefully at 3 the public records law and realized that we had in fact 4 made an error in not giving it to you sooner and you 5 were in fact entitled to it. 6 Q All right. So in other words, it was not 7 an inadvertance that caused you not to produce the 8 autopsy report to us pursuant to my January 9th 9 request? 10 A It was an error. 11 MS. ANDERSON: Mr. Weinberg, you said that the 12 Times story ran on the 22nd of January? 13 MR. WEINBERG: No, I said the 23rd. She said 14 she talked to him on the 22nd. 15 MS. ANDERSON: Well, the copy of the story 16 that you have provided as an exhibit shows a date of 17 December 17th. 18 MR. WEINBERG: I know, because we're talking 19 about a different story, Pat. 20 MS. ANDERSON: That you don't have a copy of? 21 MR. WEINBERG: I haven't shown her a copy of 22 it, but I think she understands that we're talking 23 about two different times and stories. 24 MS. ANDERSON: Well, I didn't. 25 MR. WEINBERG: Well, maybe you're not paying TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 119 1 attention, but I think she does. She said that -- 2 and she's made it clear that after the Inside Edition 3 story ran, she did interviews with the St. Pete Times 4 and the Tampa Tribune. The Inside Edition story did 5 not run until January of 1997. Those articles that 6 you're looking at are articles that were in 1996. 7 And I think we all understand that. 8 MS. ANDERSON: Uh-huh. 9 MR. WEINBERG: Do you understand that, Doctor 10 Wood? 11 THE WITNESS: Yes. 12 MS. ANDERSON: How are you doing, Doctor Wood? 13 THE WITNESS: Fine. I need to take a break in 14 a minute, but -- 15 MR. WEINBERG: Okay. Well, let's see if I can 16 get through these stories. 17 THE WITNESS: If we're going to go another 18 half hour, I better take a break now. 19 (Whereupon, a recess was taken from 4:26 to 20 4:40 p.m.) 21 (Whereupon, Exhibit No. 9 so marked by the 22 reporter.) 23 BY MR. WEINBERG: 24 Q I've put in front of you Exhibit 9, which 25 is a composite exhibit of the St. Pete Times January TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 120 1 23rd, 1997 article and the Tampa Tribune January 23rd, 2 1997 article, and those are two articles that you are 3 quoted somewhat extensively. And if you go to the St. 4 Pete Times article, which is the second article, you're 5 quoted more extensively in that and that's what we're 6 talking about now. 7 Going back now to Tom Tobin, did he give 8 you a list of questions before he interviewed you? 9 A No. 10 Q And did he tape the interview? 11 A Tape? 12 Q Tape, you know, tape record the interview? 13 A No, not that I recall. 14 Q Did you refuse to answer any of his 15 questions? 16 A No. 17 Q Did he have any records with him? 18 A No, other than the autopsy report. 19 Q He had the hospital records with him? 20 A No. 21 Q Now, why did you do the interview with Tom 22 Tobin and the Tampa Tribune? Well, let me ask the 23 question a little bit differently. 24 In light of the fact that there was an 25 ongoing active criminal investigation, why did you do TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 121 1 an interview with the two local newspapers in which you 2 discussed your autopsy findings and conclusions 3 regarding this case? 4 A Again, because I spoke for Lisa McPherson. 5 I felt the time had come for those circumstances, which 6 could be determined from her autopsy protocol, to be 7 made public in the hope that what had happened over the 8 last days of her life might be better explained. 9 Q And who is that for the benefit of? 10 A The general public. 11 Q Might it benefit the general public for 12 others outside your office to test the validity of your 13 scientific results that are set forth in your autopsy? 14 MS. ANDERSON: Objection; argumentative. 15 MR. WEINBERG: Go ahead. 16 THE WITNESS: The test results performed by my 17 office were done in a fully qualified laboratory with 18 appropriate quality control and with double testing 19 of abnormal results. There is no reason to think 20 that they are other than a correct reflection of the 21 state of Lisa McPherson. And in my opinion there is 22 no need for further testing of those specimens. 23 BY MR. WEINBERG: 24 Q Well, do you agree that there may be some 25 expert out there that might well disagree with the TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 122 1 conclusions that you reached from that scientific 2 evidence concerning the cause of death, the proximate 3 cause of death? 4 MS. ANDERSON: Objection; irrelevant, 5 immaterial. 6 MR. WEINBERG: Do you understand the question? 7 THE WITNESS: Yes. I am well aware that there 8 are experts for hire who will say black is white, if 9 paid adequate amounts to say so; however, reputable 10 individuals reviewing the findings in Lisa 11 McPherson's death will, in my opinion, arrive at the 12 same conclusions at which I arrived. 13 BY MR. WEINBERG: 14 Q Well, given that, Doctor Wood, and given 15 the fact -- strike that. 16 You have -- the conclusions you've reached 17 are final, is that right? 18 A Yes. 19 Q Given the fact that you've reached these 20 final conclusions and that you've discussed them 21 publicly, is there a reason why you will not allow our 22 experts to look at the same scientific information to 23 determine whether or not they agree or disagree with 24 your conclusions? 25 A First of all, some of what you're asking TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 123 1 for is covered under active criminal investigation. 2 Secondly, much of what your experts would need to form 3 an opinion is available to them within the autopsy 4 protocol that has already been provided to you. 5 Q Well, you say some is covered under active 6 criminal investigation. What isn't covered under 7 active criminal investigation? 8 A The autopsy protocol. 9 Q Well, you know, with all respect to your 10 office, do you understand why a responsible and 11 reputable expert would want to look at the autopsy 12 photos, autopsy slides, and autopsy sections before 13 rendering a responsible opinion as to the cause of her 14 death? 15 A As to the cause of her death, no. 16 Q Excuse me? 17 A As to the cause of her death, no. 18 Q Well, would the release of -- to the public 19 of the lab results, the photos, the slides, and the 20 other materials, you know, that are referred to in the 21 autopsy protocol in any way compromise the ongoing 22 investigation? 23 A Absolutely. 24 Q How? 25 A They compromise the ongoing investigation TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 124 1 because there are multiple individuals who have never 2 been interviewed who cared for Lisa whose descriptions 3 of her condition at various times are of extreme 4 importance to us, and the dissemination of the autopsy 5 photographs showing her condition at the time of death 6 could interfere with that search for the truth. 7 Q Well, what about the release of the 8 vitreous fluids test data, would that in any way -- in 9 light of the fact that you've already made a final 10 conclusion, would that compromise the ongoing 11 investigation in any way? 12 A First of all, you have the test data. 13 Q No. I have what your report says the test 14 data is. I do not have a lab report. I do not have 15 anything in writing from an independent lab which sets 16 forth what happened and what the data shows. I also 17 don't have the vitreous fluids that I might want to 18 test. 19 A Well, there probably aren't any, because 20 there's such a small amount from each eye that there's 21 probably no more for testing. I have no problem 22 letting you know that that is a reputable laboratory 23 that falls under state guidelines and does its tests 24 under the kinds of appropriate controls that any person 25 would want those tests to be performed under. And at TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 125 1 this point in time, quite frankly, that should be 2 adequate for you. 3 Q Well, let's just say for the moment that 4 it's not. My question is: Can you explain to me and 5 the court how the release of the underlying information 6 with regard to the vitreous fluid test, which you've 7 already analyzed and you've already drawn your final 8 conclusion of, can in any way compromise the 9 investigation? 10 A It seems -- 11 MS. ANDERSON: I'm going to object on the 12 grounds that this has been asked and answered. 13 MR. WEINBERG: Well, believe me it hasn't been 14 answered and it hasn't been asked. If you do the 15 research, this is the vital question that determines 16 whether or not there is a valid law enforcement 17 exemption. 18 MS. ANDERSON: Well, of course you're dealing 19 with forensic evidence here. 20 MR. WEINBERG: I don't care what I'm dealing 21 with, Pat. 22 MS. ANDERSON: To the extent that you can 23 articulate why it is that your office doesn't deal 24 out forensic evidence before a charge is filed, do 25 it. TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 126 1 MR. WEINBERG: Well, that isn't my question. 2 My question is: Explain how the release of 3 specifically the data that relates to the vitreous 4 fluids, in light of the fact you've already reached 5 -- you've already had them tested and you've already 6 reached a final conclusion, could in any way 7 compromise the investigation? 8 THE WITNESS: I feel at a disadvantage in 9 giving this answer, not being an attorney, but I can 10 tell you that even if I were to waive active criminal 11 investigation and provide to you a laboratory slip, 12 you would have one more piece of paper that says 13 exactly what the piece of paper you've got from us 14 already says, and it gets you no farther along a path 15 of anything. 16 BY MR. WEINBERG: 17 Q But, you know, that's my problem. Your 18 problem is is that you're a public official who has 19 spoken publicly about an autopsy -- 20 A Which is my right to do. 21 Q Let me finish. I didn't say you didn't 22 have the right -- who has released an autopsy report, 23 who has gone on national tabloid television and talked 24 about all your conclusions from it. And my question 25 is: Given that, given those actions by your office, TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 127 1 how is it that you are claiming an exemption as to 2 things like what is in your file concerning vitreous 3 fluids, what is in your file concerning slides? 4 A Because what I am telling you, and have 5 told you repeatedly today, if you deal with any 6 forensic expert with a modicum of forensic experience, 7 all that individual needs is this autopsy protocol. He 8 does not need to know the laboratory who did the test. 9 He does not need to know what is -- more than what is 10 contained upon these pages to reach those conclusions. 11 Now, you could tell me that you want 12 ballistics testings done on this case, despite the fact 13 that there's no bullet wound here -- 14 Q Every -- 15 A -- but I am telling you that any forensic 16 pathologist worth his salt in the United States today 17 can look at this autopsy protocol with these laboratory 18 values and accepting that these laboratory values, upon 19 my guarantee, are being run in a laboratory that meets 20 all criteria of acceptable clinical laboratory in this 21 country, can reach the conclusions I have reached. 22 Q And I'm telling you that we are talking to 23 the most eminent experts in this area of medicine and 24 forensic pathology in the country, and every one of 25 them has told us just the opposite, that no responsible TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 128 1 forensic pathologist would base on the autopsy report, 2 without looking at the underlying slides, without 3 looking at the underlying samples, without looking at 4 the photos, without looking at the various other 5 materials from the scientific autopsy that was done, 6 reach any final conclusions, that it would be 7 irresponsible to do that. So that's what they're 8 telling us. 9 So what I'm asking you is: As a person 10 that you've said many times looking for the truth, why 11 not make available to our experts, under your 12 supervision and control, slides, lab data, you know, 13 sections, so that they can do their own examination, 14 you know, and test that against your conclusions that 15 you've already publicly discussed and are in your 16 autopsy report? Why not allow that, if you want to get 17 at the truth? 18 MS. ANDERSON: I will object to that on the 19 grounds that it is argumentative. 20 MR. WEINBERG: It's not meant to be 21 argumentative, Pat. It's a question. 22 MS. ANDERSON: It's kind of a long run-on 23 question. 24 MR. WEINBERG: Well, can you answer that 25 question, ma'am? TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 129 1 THE WITNESS: First of all, the questions 2 regarding the degree of deprivation of fluids and the 3 chronicity of the dehydration in this case are easily 4 answered by individuals without need for a great deal 5 more information. Down the road sometime, when there 6 is a -- if there is a criminal arrest in this case, 7 then the individuals such as you are naming have 8 every right to review all of those materials in an 9 attempt to determine whether we have been correct or 10 incorrect in our diagnoses, but in my opinion, not at 11 this stage of the situation. 12 BY MR. WEINBERG: 13 Q And my question is: Can you look me in the 14 eye and tell me that the release of the underlying data 15 with regard to the vitreous fluids and the slides and 16 the sections to our experts would in any way compromise 17 an ongoing criminal investigation? 18 MS. ANDERSON: Asked and answered. 19 MR. WEINBERG: No, it hasn't been answered. 20 MS. ANDERSON: And argumentative. 21 MR. WEINBERG: It's not argumentative. 22 Can you answer that question, please, Doctor 23 Wood? 24 THE WITNESS: It is asked and answered. 25 MR. WEINBERG: Well, will you answer the TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 130 1 question, please? 2 THE WITNESS: First of all, as I told you, the 3 vitreous may not be available. It may have been used 4 up. 5 Second of all, we would have to have a special 6 master assigned. We would have to set up very 7 special circumstances under which the viewing of 8 these tissues could be -- could take place. There is 9 no way that I could allow the splitting of specimens 10 from my office to go elsewhere other than in the 11 presence of a special master. 12 MR. WEINBERG: Well, I understood that, and 13 that's what we want to do. We want to do it the way 14 that you want to do it. 15 THE WITNESS: And I don't understand why. No 16 one has been accused of anything at this point. 17 MR. WEINBERG: Well, but see, that's not the 18 issue in a public records request. The issue is is 19 whether your files are public and there is a valid 20 law enforcement exemption. 21 THE WITNESS: And -- 22 MR. WEINBERG: Let me finish. And as to those 23 portions of the file for which there is no legitimate 24 argument that can be made, that it would -- it would 25 interfere or compromise an ongoing investigation, our TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 131 1 position is there is no law enforcement exemptions. 2 BY MR. WEINBERG: 3 Q And so what I'm asking you is, as you look 4 at me and we go through this deposition, is there -- 5 can you -- are you saying that the release of the data 6 from slides, you know, sections, vitreous fluids, all 7 the underlying data in your file, that that release, 8 under whatever terms you want to release it to us, 9 could in any way compromise the investigation, when 10 you've already examined them, released an autopsy 11 report and spoken about them publicly? 12 A I see them as under the umbrella of an 13 active criminal investigation and I am not willing to 14 waive that. 15 Q That's not my question. My question is -- 16 A Well, you can ask your question a million 17 ways. What I'm telling you is, you have the autopsy 18 report. Anything else that's in my possession, until I 19 am told otherwise, is part of an active criminal 20 investigation and I will not surrender that to anyone 21 until so ordered by a judge in competent jurisdiction. 22 Q So it doesn't really -- so as far as you're 23 concerned, it doesn't matter whether or not the release 24 would or would not compromise an investigation; as long 25 as there's an investigation, you're not going to TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 132 1 release until ordered by a judge, is that right? 2 A My understanding is that information which 3 is under active criminal investigation does not come to 4 me to make a judgment as to whether I think this piece 5 might or might not hamper the investigation. It has 6 simply to do with the fact that there is a blanket 7 statement that it is part of an active criminal 8 investigation. 9 Q Right. And you can just say that without 10 any review by anybody? 11 A I am saying that as the medical examiner 12 for this circuit, in concert with -- not in concert 13 with, but in consultation with the Clearwater Police 14 Department and the Florida Department of Law 15 Enforcement. 16 Q All right. Now, can you articulate how, if 17 at all, the release, under the circumstances that you 18 dictate, to our experts of the lab tests, slides and 19 the sections, could or would compromise this ongoing 20 investigation? Can you articulate any way that it 21 could? 22 MS. ANDERSON: By "our," you mean the Church 23 of Scientology? 24 MR. WEINBERG: Anybody. I mean, you know, it 25 doesn't matter who the member of the public is. To TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 133 1 the public. 2 MS. ANDERSON: Regardless of the ultimate 3 impact on the defendant, if there is ever going to be 4 a defendant? 5 MR. WEINBERG: Well, what difference does it 6 make? That doesn't have any difference as far as the 7 public records are concerned, Pat. 8 Could you read that question back, please? 9 (The requested portion of the record was read 10 back by the reporter.) 11 THE WITNESS: (Conferring with counsel.) 12 Having no knowledge as to whom these materials 13 might be made available were I to release them, and 14 having no knowledge as to the integrity, ability, 15 expertise of the individual, I can imagine any result 16 coming from an independent review, that review might 17 mirror mine and might be one hundred eighty degrees 18 opposite, and that might be through expertise or for 19 some other reason; and therefore, I think that the 20 potential is that the criminal investigation could 21 suffer grave harm. 22 BY MR. WEINBERG: 23 Q Because somebody might disagree with you? 24 A Not because someone might, who is an 25 expert, genuinely disagree with me, but because some TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 134 1 people are of greater integrity than others. 2 Q Well, that assumes yourself as well, right? 3 A Yes. 4 Q All right. Now, do you believe that the 5 Church of Scientology is not a legitimate church? 6 A I don't know anything about the Church of 7 Scientology. 8 Q Well, take a look at your answer. Do you 9 have that in front of you? And particularly, go to 10 actually the motion. Here, if I can just come over 11 there for a second. 12 You filed a motion for a judgment on the 13 pleadings. And if you refer to Paragraph 5 of that 14 motion, you say in the motion, "The filing of this 15 lawsuit is a blatant attempt on the part of the Church 16 of Scientology to abort a legitimate criminal 17 investigation into the circumstances of Lisa 18 McPherson's death while under the church's care in the 19 final days of her life. Doctor Wood is under no 20 obligation to cooperate with such an attempt by the 21 so-called church," and you have "church" in quotes. 22 Now, does that -- by that, do you mean that 23 you don't believe, you, the medical examiner of 24 Pasco-Pinellas, you don't believe that the Church of 25 Scientology is a legitimate church by putting it in TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 135 1 quotes or by saying "so-called church"? 2 A They are called a church. I don't know 3 what that means. 4 Q Well, what did you mean when you authorized 5 your lawyer to call it a "so-called church" in quotes? 6 A I just explained to you, they are called a 7 church. I don't know what that means. They are not 8 the episcopal church, the catholic church, the 9 Presbyterian church. I know they call themselves a 10 church. I don't know what they believe in. I don't 11 know if they're a church or not. So "so-called 12 church," perhaps they are. 13 Q Well, would it bother you if somebody 14 referred to your religion as a so-called church in 15 quotes as a public official? 16 MS. ANDERSON: Objection; that has nothing to 17 do in connection with the case. 18 MR. WEINBERG: Oh, it has everything to do 19 with it, her bias, Pat, because it may well be that 20 Doctor Wood has taken the position that she's taken 21 because she's biased and she dislikes -- 22 THE WITNESS: -- you know -- 23 MR. WEINBERG: -- let the record reflect -- 24 THE WITNESS: -- we are about -- 25 MR. WEINBERG: -- that Doctor Wood is standing TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 136 1 up and screaming at me now. 2 THE WITNESS: I am not screaming at you. 3 MS. ANDERSON: That is not true, Mr. Weinberg. 4 MR. WEINBERG: Well, she -- 5 THE WITNESS: Mr. Weinberg, I am a member -- 6 MR. WEINBERG: She's standing up, is that 7 true? 8 MS. ANDERSON: She stood up. 9 THE WITNESS: I am very angered at you, yes. 10 MR. WEINBERG: Why? 11 THE WITNESS: I am a member of the Episcopal 12 Church. 13 MR. WEINNERG: And I'm a member of the 14 Unitarian Church. 15 THE WITNESS: It has been a church in this 16 country for many, many years, and in England before 17 it. 18 If the Church of Scientology wishes to become 19 a church as of 1950, and espouse Godly views or those 20 views which are held by large numbers of people, then 21 that's fine. If they don't believe in God, that's 22 fine. If they believe in God on Mars, that's fine. 23 I take offense at your suggestion and your 24 words that I would be biased against any 25 organization, be they Scientology, Moslem, Buddhist, TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 137 1 Jewish, or whatever. I don't care. 2 BY MR. WEINBERG: 3 Q Well, then, Doctor Wood, why did you file a 4 pleading in which you referred to the Church of 5 Scientology as a so-called, quote, "church," unquote? 6 Why did you do that if you were so fair and unbiased as 7 to the Church of Scientology? 8 A I've not seen anything that proves that 9 they are a church. 10 Q Well, do you think the fact that the IRS 11 has determined that they're a tax exempt religious 12 organization, would that indicate to you that they 13 might be a church? 14 MS. ANDERSON: Objection. 15 MR. WEINBERG: Or that there are eight and a 16 half million people in the world that are 17 Scientologists? But more importantly, what does it 18 have to do with the Public Records Act Request that 19 this organization made? What does whether or not 20 they're a church have anything to do with that? What 21 does it have to do with it? 22 THE WITNESS: It has to do with the fact that 23 they are the entity, whatever they may be, that is 24 seeking the records. And that's all, from my point 25 of view. TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 138 1 BY MR. WEINBERG: 2 Q Why did you put in quotes, "church"? Does 3 that suggest that you don't think that they are 4 legitimate? 5 A I don't know that they are. Maybe they 6 are. 7 Q And what difference does it make to you as 8 a public official, who has an obligation to produce 9 public documents, as to whether or not you think that 10 they are or not a church? What difference does it 11 make? 12 A It makes absolutely no difference to me 13 whether they are a church or not a church. The 14 difference it makes to me as an individual who spends 15 her life attempting to deal with truth and who knows 16 that Lisa McPherson should not be dead, that an 17 organization has systematically blocked our attempt to 18 talk to those individuals who cared for her, to those 19 individuals who knew what was happening to her for 20 those last seventeen days of her life, who have told to 21 the police, who have related to me, stories of what was 22 going on with Lisa that are impossible based on her 23 medical files. 24 Q For example? 25 A That she was talking that day and making a TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 139 1 choice to go to HCA New Port Richey, when I know that 2 with a sodium of a hundred and eighty, she couldn't 3 possibly have had that conversation. 4 Q What else? 5 A When their -- 6 MS. ANDERSON: Excuse me. That question is 7 meaningless. 8 MR. WEINBERG: Well, that objection is 9 meaningless. What kind of objection is that? 10 MS. ANDERSON: Well, that question has no 11 factual predicate. It is vague. It is not 12 answerable. 13 MR. WEINBERG: What we're doing is talking 14 about what I perceive as some deep -- and not to 15 offend you, Doctor Wood, but what I perceive, 16 representing the Church of Scientology, as some very 17 deep bias that I think plays -- has played a 18 significant role in her decision whether or not to 19 produce public documents. And what you were 20 describing to me is an animus that you apparently 21 have with regard to the church. 22 MS. ANDERSON: Objection. 23 THE WITNESS: No, no, no, no. 24 MS. ANDERSON: Objection. 25 MR. WEINBERG: Well, what is it then? You TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 140 1 just said that they have blocked every attempt by you 2 to do interviews. What were you talking about? 3 MS. ANDERSON: That question you can answer. 4 THE WITNESS: Okay. If this was Smith Nursing 5 Home in Largo and I had the death of a patient there 6 and I couldn't get any cooperation from anyone in 7 that nursing home, I couldn't get factual statements 8 that the body of the deceased told me were events 9 that had to have been happening, if I perceived that 10 everyone who should be able to give us good 11 information to allow us to put together a picture of 12 the last few days of Mrs. X's life was either not 13 telling us the truth, not talking to us, giving us 14 information that was totally unfitting the 15 circumstances, who fled the country rather than to 16 speak to us -- 17 BY MR. WEINBERG: 18 Q Fled the country? 19 A Well, I believe that some of the people in 20 this case are gone, are they not? 21 Q Well, "fled the country" has a connotation 22 to it, like they intentionally left to avoid getting 23 interviewed by law enforcement officers. 24 A I -- 25 Q Is that what you're suggesting? TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 141 1 A No. I'm saying they are no longer in the 2 United States or they're no longer available for us to 3 interview, and so we are left with this mish-mash of 4 information. And what we have been given is 5 information in total contradistinction to what Mrs. X's 6 body tells us -- 7 Q Tells you? 8 A Tells us in my office -- then I have a 9 problem with Smith Nursing Home in Largo. 10 Q All right. 11 A I have absolutely no different problem in 12 this circumstance with the Church of Scientology than I 13 have with Smith Nursing Home. All I want is the truth. 14 Give me the people who cared for her, tell me what 15 happened to her, tell me how she acted, and I'm 16 finished. 17 Q And if they say something that you don't 18 think is -- that doesn't fit with the conclusions that 19 you've drawn, then your conclusion is that they're 20 lying to you? 21 A Well, let me put it to you this way: If I 22 tell you that the woman sitting next to you -- 23 Q Laura. 24 A -- has just suffered a gunshot wound that 25 went through both halves of her brain and I ask you how TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 142 1 she's doing, and you say, "Well, I heard a noise, but 2 following that she was sitting there for ten, fifteen, 3 twenty minutes, we had a perfectly rational 4 conversation, she seemed to be fine, she got up, she 5 walked out the door, she didn't have any trail of blood 6 behind her, went out to the street and walked down the 7 street," and yet the bullet is in that wall and there's 8 a pile of blood on the chair, pool of blood on that 9 chair, don't you think I'm going to wonder if you told 10 me the truth or not? 11 Q The same way that I will wonder, until our 12 experts have an opportunity to look at your work, and 13 it may be good, it may not be good, as to whether -- 14 because I don't know you from a hole in the ground, 15 Doctor Wood -- whether or not what you were doing -- 16 what you have concluded is correct or incorrect. And 17 what we are also -- I am also, as a lawyer who 18 represents a client, attempting to get at the truth, 19 all right? 20 A And who's your client? 21 Q My client is the Church of Scientology. 22 A Who hasn't been charged with anything. 23 Q Well, you've just, in essence, accused 24 them. 25 A (Gesturing.) TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 143 1 Q Look, Doctor Wood, I'm not stupid. By 2 sitting here and giving the statement you just made, 3 there is no other explanation, based on what you say, 4 for all of this to have happened, other than something 5 bad, because that's what you've just said. 6 A Something bad did happen, but I don't know 7 who's responsible. 8 Q Let's not be disingenuous. 9 A I am not being disingenuous. 10 Q With all due respect, the suggestion that 11 your public statements did not -- 12 A Excuse me, this just ceased. 13 (The witness left the deposition room.) 14 MR. WEINBERG: I don't think you can do that. 15 What time do you want to start tomorrow 16 morning? You want to do it at 10:00? 17 MS. ANDERSON: That's fine. On the record I 18 want to give you a copy of the autopsy report. 19 MR. WEINBERG: Can you just mark this as what 20 she just gave me. Mark this as the next exhibit. It 21 would be ten. 22 (Whereupon, Exhibit Number 10 so marked by the 23 reporter.) 24 (Whereupon, the deposition was adjouned at 25 5:15 p.m.) TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 144 1 S T I P U L A T I O N _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 2 It was stipulated and agreed by and between 3 respective counsel present and the witness that reading 4 and signing of the deposition by the witness is not 5 waived. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 145 1 SIGNATURE PAGE/ERRATA SHEET 2 3 PAGE LINE CORRECTION AND REASON THEREFOR ____ ____ ______________________________ 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 I have read the foregoing pages and, 17 except for any corrections or amendments I have indicated above, 18 my testimony reads as given in the foregoing transcript. 19 20 _________________________________ (Signature of Deponent) 21 _________________________________ 22 (Date) 23 _________________________________ (WITNESS TO SIGNATURE) 24 25 TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 146 1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 2 3 STATE OF FLORIDA : 4 COUNTY OF HILLSBOROUGH : 5 I, Thea J. Nichols, Court Reporter and Notary 6 Public in and for the State of Florida at Large: 7 DO HEREBY CERTIFY that I reported in shorthand 8 the foregoing proceedings at the time and place therein designated; that my shorthand notes were thereafter 9 reduced to typewriting under my supervision; and the foregoing pages, numbered 4 through ~, are a true and 10 correct, verbatim record of the aforesaid proceedings. 11 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative, 12 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties, nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel, 13 or financially interested in the foregoing action. 14 WITNESS MY HAND AND SEAL THIS, THE 11th DAY OF 15 February, 1997, IN THE CITY OF TAMPA, COUNTY OF HILLSBOROUGH, STATE OF FLORIDA. 16 17 18 19 ________________________ 20 THEA J. NICHOLS, 21 Court Reporter, Notary Public, State of 22 Florida at Large. 23 My Commission Expires: October 6, 1997 24 25 TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS 229-0014 147 1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE SIXTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, FLORIDA 2 3 4 5 ______________________________/ CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY 6 FLAG SERVICE ORG., INC., 7 Plaintiff, Case No. 97-688-CI-07 8 vs. 9 JOAN E. WOOD, M.D., MEDICAL EXAMINER DISTRICT SIX 10 PINELLAS/PASCO COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE, 11 Defendants. 12 ______________________________/ 13 DAY TWO 14 (pages 147 - 200) 15 CONTINUED 16 DEPOSITION OF: JOAN E. WOOD, M.D. 17 TAKEN: Pursuant to Notice by Counsel for the 18 Plaintiff 19 DATE: February 11, 1997 20 TIME: 10:10 a.m. - 11:15 a.m. 21 LOCATION: Rahdert, Anderson, McGowan & Steele, P.A. 22 535 Central Avenue St. Petersburg, Florida 23 BEFORE: Jill M. Giles-Saenz 24 Court Reporter Notary Public 25 State of Florida at Large. TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 148 1 APPEARANCES 2 On Behalf of the Plaintiff, Church of Scientology Flag 3 Service Org., Inc.: 4 MORRIS WEINBERG, JR., ESQUIRE and 5 LAURA L. VAUGHN, ESQUIRE ZUCKERMAN, SPAEDER, TAYLOR & EVANS 6 401 East Jackson Street Suite 2525 7 Tampa, Florida 33602 8 LEE FUGATE, ESQUIRE 108 Icot Center 9 13630 - 58th Street North Clearwater, Florida 34720-3437 10 11 On Behalf of the Defendants, Joan E. Wood, M.D., Medical Examiner District Six Pinellas/Pasco County Medical 12 Examiner's Office: 13 PATRICIA FIELDS ANDERSON, ESQUIRE RAHDERT, ANDERSON MCGOWAN 14 & STEELE, P.A. 535 Central Avenue 15 St. Petersburg, Florida 33701 16 Also Present: 17 ED PARKIN 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 149 1 I N D E X 2 Page 3 Direct Examination by Mr. Weinberg 150 Stipulations 197 4 Certificate of Reporter 198 Read and Sign Page 199 5 Errata Sheet 200 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 150 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 The deposition of JOAN E. WOOD, M.D., Day 3 Two, taken pursuant to Notice by Counsel for Plaintiff, 4 Church of Scientology Flag Service Org., Inc., at 535 5 Central Avenue, St. Petersburg, Florida, February 11, 6 1997, beginning at 10:10 a.m., before Jill M. Giles- 7 Saenz, Court Reporter, Notary Public, State of Florida 8 at Large. 9 Thereupon, 10 JOAN E. WOOD, M.D., 11 having previously been duly sworn to speak the truth, the 12 whole truth, and nothing but the truth, was examined and 13 testified as follows: 14 DIRECT EXAMINATION 15 BY MR. WEINBERG: 16 Q This is a continuation of your deposition and 17 you're still under oath, Dr. Wood. 18 Yesterday -- I'll show you Exhibit 9. (Tendering 19 documents.) It's the "St. Pete Times" and "The Tampa 20 Tribune" articles of January 1997. And we had talked to you 21 about your conversation with Tom Tobin. Now I want to go 22 over the article with you and ask you a few questions about 23 it. 24 Specifically, if you go to the first paragraph of 25 the "St. Pete Times" article on January 23rd, Exhibit 9, it TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 151 1 says, "Laboratory tests indicate that a 36-year-old member 2 of the Church of Scientology went without fluids for five to 3 10 days and was unconscious for up to two days before her 4 unexplained death in 1995. Those conclusions by Joan Wood," 5 and then it goes on. 6 My question to you, Dr. Wood, is: What public 7 records did you base those conclusions on? 8 A The autopsy results. 9 Q The autopsy results? Are you talking about the 10 vitreous fluid lab data? 11 A Yes. 12 Q And what public records exist in the file to 13 support that conclusion? 14 A Laboratory tests. 15 Q If you go further on in the article, the bottom of 16 the third column, it begins, "However, Wood said Wednesday 17 that McPherson's health declined slowly over several days 18 and was far from sudden. She said it's `impossible' that a 19 staph infection led to McPherson's death." 20 Now, with regard to the statement -- first of all, 21 did you make that statement that her health declined slowly 22 over several days and was far from sudden? 23 A Yes. 24 Q And did you make the statement that it's 25 impossible, quote, unquote, that a staph infection led to TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 152 1 McPherson's death? 2 A My recollection is I said that the laboratory 3 tests do not -- do not indicate that she died of a staph 4 infection. 5 Q So you don't remember using the word "impossible" 6 even though it's put in quotes there? 7 A No, I don't. 8 Q What public records did you base the conclusion 9 that her health declined slowly over several days and was 10 far from sudden? 11 A Laboratory test results. 12 Q Which results were those? 13 A Same ones. 14 Q The vitreous fluids? 15 A Yes. 16 Q Any others? 17 A No. 18 Q What public records exist to support that 19 conclusion that her health declined slowly over several days 20 and was far from sudden? 21 A Autopsy results with laboratory studies. 22 Q Any laboratory studies outside of vitreous fluids? 23 A There are additional laboratory tests of urine 24 which are in support of that. But the vitreous fluids allow 25 the conclusion and don't require the additional tests. TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 153 1 Q The additional laboratory tests of urine, are 2 those referred to specifically in the autopsy protocol that 3 is Exhibit 1? 4 A No. They are part of an active criminal 5 investigation. 6 Q I couldn't hear what you just said. 7 A No. They are part of an active criminal 8 investigation. 9 Q When were those tests done? 10 A Relatively recently. 11 Q Well, this article is relatively recently. When 12 specifically were the tests done? 13 A I couldn't tell you without looking at the file. 14 Q Would the file indicate whether they were done 15 before or after January 23rd, 1997? 16 A Yes. 17 Q And do you know as you sit here whether they were 18 done before or after January 23rd, 1997? 19 A No. 20 Q Is that the additional testing that you were 21 referring to yesterday? 22 A I believe so, yes. 23 Q I may have misunderstood what you said yesterday. 24 Let me ask the question: Was there additional testing of 25 the vitreous fluids recently? TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 154 1 A No. 2 Q If you go back to that article, the fourth column, 3 the last -- the second -- well, the first full paragraph, 4 the article says, "The lab results, quote, are consistent 5 with a chronic process and inconsistent with an event such 6 as a bloodstream infection that occurred within a period of 7 hours, Wood said. She wasn't fine one day and dead the 8 next." Did you say that? 9 A Yes. 10 Q Now, what lab results specifically were you 11 referring to that indicated -- that are quote, consistent 12 with the chronic process and inconsistent with an event such 13 as a bloodstream infection? 14 A They are not consistent of -- with their 15 diagnostic of a chronic process, and they are those 16 chemistries about which we already spoke. 17 Q Which ones are those specifically? 18 A Vitreous. 19 Q Does this include the urine test as well? 20 A If it had, I would have said urine and vitreous. 21 My answer was vitreous. 22 Q Now, it goes on to say in the next paragraph, 23 "Wood also concluded that McPherson had been bitten by ants 24 or roaches." Did you say that? 25 A Yes. TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 155 1 Q And what public records did you base that 2 statement on? 3 A The photographs, understanding of course that I 4 saw her body while it was there for the autopsy. 5 Q Did you also base that statement on any of the 6 specimens done from the areas of the skin? 7 A No. 8 Q Going back to the paragraph before, you told me 9 what you based the statement on, that it was a chronic 10 process inconsistent with a bloodstream infection. But I 11 also asked you: What public records exist in your file that 12 would support that conclusion? 13 A Laboratory results that are reflected in the 14 autopsy protocol. 15 Q Which is the same that you relied on in making 16 that statement? 17 A Yes. 18 Q If you go to the next page, the second column, 19 fourth paragraph, it says, "But Wood said there are 20 documented cases in which" -- I think it means "there have 21 been" -- oh, "they have," that means roaches -- "have bitten 22 humans who are dead or unconscious." Did you make that 23 statement? 24 MS. ANDERSON: Where are you? 25 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. Are you at the TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 156 1 bottom of the column that starts, "Liar. Liar. Liar. 2 Liar. Liar. Hateful liar. That's what she is"? Is 3 that the column to which you're referring? 4 BY MR. WEINBERG: 5 Q Yeah. And what I said was the fourth paragraph. 6 And my question is: Where it says, "Wood said 7 there are documented cases in which they" -- and by "they" 8 it means roaches -- "have bitten humans who are dead or 9 unconscious," did you make that statement or a statement 10 like that? 11 A Yes. 12 Q And what did you base that statement on? 13 A Conversation with Neil Haskell. 14 Q This is the fellow that you referred to yesterday 15 from either Indiana or Illinois? 16 A Illinois. 17 Q Illinois. Okay. 18 Are there any notes with regard to that 19 conversation in the file? 20 A No. 21 Q Is there any memo with regard to that conversation 22 in that file? 23 A No. 24 Q Is there materials Dr. Haskell sent you or Mr. 25 Haskell sent you with regard to roaches or roach bites? TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 157 1 A It is Dr. Haskell. No. 2 Q Is there any research in the file with regard to 3 roaches or roach bites? 4 A No. 5 Q Now, it goes on in the next paragraph, "Wood said 6 she reached her conclusions about McPherson after seeing 7 test results on McPherson's eye fluids, which can accurately 8 reflect a body's condition before death." Did you make that 9 statement? 10 A Yes. 11 Q Now, what records did you base that statement on? 12 A Laboratory test results. 13 Q Talking about the vitreous fluid results? 14 A That's the fluid of the eye, yes. 15 Q It goes on to say that, "The readings on one test 16 are, quote, so high she had to be unconscious for 24 to 48 17 hours, Wood said." Did you make that statement? 18 A Yes. 19 Q Which tests are you referring to? Here's the 20 autopsy see report. (Tendering documents.) Which test? 21 There is one, two, three, four, five, six, seven vitreous 22 tests. 23 (Witness and Counsel conferring.) 24 Dr. Wood? 25 MS. ANDERSON: Sandy, I think that you're TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 158 1 trying to get at her opinion. 2 MR. WEINBERG: Look, she went onto a local 3 newspaper, the one you represent, and told the reporter 4 that she based her conclusions that the woman was dead 5 for -- or comatose for 24 to 48 hours based on the 6 readings of a particular test, which I assume she 7 identified to him. 8 THE WITNESS: I did not identify it to him. 9 BY MR. WEINBERG: 10 Q Well, which test are you talking about? You 11 talked about it publicly. 12 MS. ANDERSON: How does that relate to a -- 13 MR. WEINBERG: -- it's a public record. What 14 are you talking about? The test is right -- I assume 15 that the test is referred to somewhere in here, and we 16 want the test. 17 MS. ANDERSON: You've got the test results. 18 MR. WEINBERG: No, we don't. No. What we 19 have is what your -- is what Dr. Wood's office has put 20 on this sheet. But I don't have the test. I don't 21 have the lab results. I don't have any of that stuff. 22 What I've got is a sheet of paper that has 23 something that your office has typed on it, but I don't 24 have the test protocol that has come back from the lab. 25 I don't have that. What I've got is something that -- TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 159 1 MS. ANDERSON: -- what you have are lab 2 values right there on the autopsy. 3 MR. WEINBERG: I don't have what came back 4 from the lab. 5 THE WITNESS: What comes back from the lab -- 6 MR. WEINBERG: -- is that -- 7 THE WITNESS: -- is numbers. 8 BY MR. WEINBERG: 9 Q Well, and I would like to see what comes back from 10 the lab, Dr. Wood, with all due respect to you and your 11 office. I have a right to see that. 12 And I'm asking you what the test was. I mean, 13 which one is it? Is it the vitreous urea nitrogen? Is that 14 the one you're talking about? 15 MS. ANDERSON: I'm going to object. This is 16 way beyond the scope of anything that could be remotely 17 relevant. 18 MR. WEINBERG: This is probably the most 19 relevant thing that we have talked about throughout the 20 deposition. She goes in the newspaper and talks about 21 her tests and talks about her conclusions, and now she 22 wants to hide behind some law enforcement exemption. 23 I have a right to talk to her about what 24 she -- she said. She's the one that made the 25 statement, "The public had a right to know," and that's TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 160 1 why she did these articles. 2 And so she talks about a test, and now you're 3 telling me that the test is exempt and you're 4 instructing her not to answer? Based on what? 5 MS. ANDERSON: I'm not instructing her not to 6 answer. What I'm telling you is -- 7 MR. WEINBERG: -- oh, well, fine. State your 8 objection, and let's go on. 9 MS. ANDERSON: My objection is that what you 10 are attempting to do is not seek information related to 11 records as your lawsuit claims. You're wanting to get 12 inside her head on opinions. 13 MR. WEINBERG: And I'm telling you that 14 you're wrong. But you've stated your objection. 15 BY MR. WEINBERG: 16 Q Now, please answer my question. What test are you 17 referring to? What's the basis of that statement? Which 18 test? 19 (Witness conferring with Counsel.) 20 A I'm not answering the question. 21 Q Based on what? Your attorney has not instructed 22 you not to answer. Why are you not answering it? 23 A I'm not answering because you have the laboratory 24 test results in front of you. You're attempting to get me 25 to explain to you by subverting the jus -- the discovery TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 161 1 process. 2 Q And what's wrong -- and what's going to happen if 3 you tell us what test you were discussing with the "St. Pete 4 Times" to be published to hundreds of thousands of people in 5 the Tampa Bay area? What is going to happen if you tell us 6 now what test you were referring to? 7 A I don't know. 8 Q So what's your problem with that? 9 A My problem is that you're attempting to get my 10 entire opinion regarding each and every fact that is a 11 physical finding of Lisa McPherson, and this has nothing to 12 do with a public records request. 13 Q Well, I mean, first of all, you already said that 14 you'd stated all your conclusions as to this, what you 15 talked about in the paper. 16 But secondly, all I want to do is find out what 17 you were talking to the press about, what document -- what 18 specific document you were relying on when you told the 19 reporter that a particular test, singular, a particular test 20 was so high that she had to be unconscious for 24 to 48 21 hours. Which particular test? I have a right. That's a 22 document. What is it? 23 A I'm not sure that that's a correct statement from 24 the attorney. And the answer is the vitreous fluid test. 25 Q From the attorney? TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 162 1 A Oh, I'm sorry. From the reporter. And the answer 2 is the vitreous fluid results. 3 Q That's the document then, the vitreous fluid 4 results? 5 A Yes. 6 Q Okay. And then it goes on, "And, in terms of eye 7 fluid results, it is the, quote, worst case of dehydration 8 I've ever seen, said Wood, who has been Pinellas-Pasco 9 medical examiner for nearly 15 years." Did you say that? 10 A Yes. 11 Q And I take it that the public records in your file 12 that support that statement is the vitreous fluid results? 13 A Yes. 14 Q Now, in the last column there is a -- at the top 15 of the page it says, "Abelson cited language in the report 16 stating McPherson was of average nutritional status. But 17 Wood said that only means she wasn't abnormally thin." Is 18 that what you said? 19 A Yes. 20 Q And were you referring to the description in the 21 protocol where it talks about average nutritional status? 22 Is that what you were referring to? 23 A Yes. 24 Q And when you said that that means she wasn't 25 abnormally thin, what did you mean by that? TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 163 1 A She wasn't abnormally thin. 2 Q You mean she -- there wasn't a malnutrition case; 3 is that what you're talking about? 4 A She was not anorexic. She was not cachectic. She 5 was not abnormally thin. 6 Q Okay. It goes on to say that, "Abelson cited a 7 passage stating there were 15 cubic centimeters of urine in 8 her bladder. But Wood said that's only three teaspoons and 9 that a person in the throes of dehydration can still produce 10 urine." Did you say that or words to that effect? 11 A Not that part about Mr. Abelson. Yes, the 12 "Wood" -- "but Wood said." Yes. 13 Q What public records did you base that statement 14 on? 15 A The autopsy protocol. 16 Q Now, the three teaspoons of urine, is that the 17 urine that you referred to a few minutes ago that was 18 tested? 19 A Yes. 20 Q Is there any left for us to test? 21 A No. 22 Q And was that testing done sometime after you did 23 the "Inside Edition" story? 24 A No, not -- not the bulk of the testing. The 25 bulk of the testing had already been performed in our drug TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 164 1 chem -- in our drug -- our toxicology laboratory. There was 2 approximately one-fifth of a teaspoon remaining, and it was 3 that one-fifth of a teaspoon which I had sent for additional 4 tests that I felt were relevant. 5 Q And that one-fifth of a teaspoon additional test 6 was done after the "Inside Edition" story? 7 A I believe it was in the works at that time, but 8 I'm not certain of that. 9 Q Does your file indicate when that one-fifth of a 10 teaspoon was sent for testing? 11 A It would, yes. 12 Q What in the file would indicate that? 13 A The tracking of the sending out of the specimen 14 from our office. 15 Q Does the autopsy protocol talk about urine 16 testing? 17 A Testing? Yes. 18 Q Well, whatever -- you said that some testing 19 had been done by your lab prior to you sending the last 20 one-fifth of a teaspoon. So that's the drug screen testing? 21 (Indicating.) 22 A Yes. 23 Q Did you consult with the state attorney's office 24 to advise them that the retesting or additional testing that 25 you were doing would exhaust the sample? TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 165 1 A No. 2 Q Was that retesting done after our Public Records 3 Act request was made on January 9th, 1997? 4 A I believe it may have been done after your 5 request, yes. 6 Q Well, let me refer you to your letter to me which 7 is Exhibit 5 in response to my request. And you said as to 8 our request to preserve specimens for testing, that until 9 that time -- that is, until the time your file is open -- 10 that, quote, we will preserve any and all materials related 11 to the case. 12 Now, can you explain why you exhausted a urine 13 sample after sending a letter to us on January 10th 14 following our request that you preserve all samples for our 15 testing purposes? 16 A First of all, your letter was a request. 17 Second of all, in speaking with a medical 18 colleague, he suggested one additional test of great 19 importance, and I made the decision to go forth testing that 20 one-fifth teaspoon of urine because the possibility existed 21 that the individuals caring for her might have been 22 vindicated had the test results come back different from the 23 way they did. 24 Q Vindicated how? 25 A By showing a different condition. TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 166 1 Q By showing renal failure or no renal failure? I 2 mean, what can you -- I mean, what are you talking about? 3 MS. ANDERSON: No. We're not going to do 4 this. You're now into -- 5 MR. WEINBERG: -- no, no. Pat, what has 6 happened here is that Dr. Wood, after she told us that 7 she was going to preserve the samples, has exhausted 8 completely the urine sample. 9 MS. ANDERSON: What right do you have to test 10 these specimens any more than I do or the Cult 11 Awareness Network, for example? 12 MR. WEINBERG: All I can say, Pat, is -- 13 MS. ANDERSON: -- you're a member of the 14 public. 15 MR. WEINBERG: First of all -- 16 MS. ANDERSON: -- there is nothing that 17 distinguishes the Church of Scientology in regard to 18 these specimens, Sandy. 19 MR. WEINBERG: No. Except that Dr. Wood sent 20 me a letter, which is Exhibit 5, saying as a public 21 official we will preserve any and all materials related 22 to the case after we made a request that they be 23 preserved so -- 24 MS. ANDERSON: -- and she did one more test 25 and used up this speck of urine. Big deal. TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 167 1 MR. WEINBERG: That's -- big deal? 2 MS. ANDERSON: Yeah, big deal. 3 MR. WEINBERG: She said it was something that 4 might vindicate my client. It sounds like it was a 5 pretty big deal. Now, how do I know -- how do I know 6 that she did the test right? 7 MS. ANDERSON: Your client is not even a 8 suspect. 9 MR. WEINBERG: And that is one of the most 10 disingenuous things I've ever heard. 11 MS. ANDERSON: Watch what you say. 12 MR. WEINBERG: It is. 13 MS. ANDERSON: Watch your mouth. 14 MR. WEINBERG: No, no. Watch what you say, 15 Pat, because the fact of the matter is we've been told 16 by any number of law enforcement people that that is 17 the case. 18 MS. ANDERSON: Let's suppose -- 19 MR. WEINBERG: -- and you know that. 20 MS. ANDERSON: -- let's suppose -- 21 MR. WEINBERG: -- that's how your client 22 newspaper -- 23 THE REPORTER: -- I can't take both of you at 24 the same time -- 25 MR. WEINBERG: -- your client newspaper, the TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 168 1 "St. Pete Times" has reported this. 2 But let's go back to the question. And I 3 know Dr. Wood -- and I don't want to have a debate with 4 you, Pat. Let's go back to the question. 5 MS. ANDERSON: We're going to terminate this 6 deposition if you don't just get off this. 7 MR. WEINBERG: No, we're not going to 8 terminate this deposition. You're the one that started 9 it by talking about cults. Where do you come off 10 talking about that? 11 MS. ANDERSON: What I am going to do -- 12 MR. WEINBERG: -- where do you come off 13 filing a paper talking about my client as a so-called, 14 quote, church, unquote? Where do you come off doing 15 that? That's irresponsible, and it's not professional 16 and you know it. If I called your religion -- 17 MS. ANDERSON: -- I'm going to terminate this 18 deposition, Sandy, if you don't stop it. 19 MR. WEINBERG: I'm going to get back to the 20 questions. 21 BY MR. WEINBERG: 22 Q Now, Dr. Wood, if you go to the Tribune 23 article -- turn to the Tribune article there, please. 24 A (Complying.) 25 Q Now, did you talk to a Tribune reporter over the TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 169 1 phone? 2 A Yes. 3 Q Which reporter was it? 4 A Cheryl Waldrip. 5 Q And did she tell you what she wanted to talk to 6 you about? 7 A Yes. 8 Q What did she say? 9 A I don't recall exactly. 10 Q Well, how long was the interview? 11 A I don't recall. 12 Q Approximately. 13 A I don't recall. 14 Q Well, was it more than a minute? 15 A Yes. 16 Q And did you put any restrictions on the interview? 17 A I didn't have any restrictions going in. I'm 18 perfectly capable of saying I will or won't answer any given 19 question. 20 Q Was it before or after you met with Tom Tobin in 21 your office? 22 A If memory serves me, it was before. 23 Q Was anybody on the phone with you? 24 A No. 25 Q Did you make any notes of the interview? TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 170 1 A No. 2 Q Was a tape made of the interview? 3 A Not by me. 4 Q Did you refuse to answer any questions in the 5 interview? 6 A Not that I can recall. 7 Q Did you -- were you referring to any records 8 during the interview? 9 A No. 10 Q Did the reporter refer to any records during the 11 interview? 12 A Not that I recall. 13 Q Did you get permission to do the interview with 14 anyone from law enforcement? 15 A No. 16 Q Did anyone from law enforcement tell you not to do 17 the interview? 18 A No. 19 Q Did you discuss the interview before it happened 20 with anyone from law enforcement? 21 A No. 22 Q Did you discuss the interview after it happened 23 with anyone from law enforcement? 24 A Yes. 25 Q Who? TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 171 1 A I believe Lee Strope, Wayne Andrews and Doug Crow. 2 Q What did the police -- was Strope and Andrews 3 together or separate when you talked to them? 4 MS. ANDERSON: This is completely 5 irrelevant, what conversation she had with law 6 enforcement about this newspaper interview. Let's 7 get onto some records-related question. 8 MR. WEINBERG: It is a records-related 9 question. 10 MS. ANDERSON: No, it isn't. 11 MR. WEINBERG: Oh, sure it is. 12 MS. ANDERSON: No. You're just trying to get 13 inside the controversy of this criminal investigation. 14 MR. WEINBERG: No, I'm not, Pat. 15 MS. ANDERSON: Yeah, you are. 16 MR. WEINBERG: What I'm trying to find out 17 is why your client talked to the press about her 18 conclusions, and whether or not law enforcement 19 indicated in any way that there was any problem with 20 that because that's what the standard is that we're 21 operating under. 22 MS. ANDERSON: And what difference does that 23 make? 24 MR. WEINBERG: Maybe you ought to read the 25 cases. TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 172 1 MS. ANDERSON: Maybe I wrote the cases. 2 Maybe I wrote a lot of the cases. 3 MR. WEINBERG: Well, and then maybe you 4 shouldn't be taking the position that you're taking. 5 But unless you can demonstrate that in some 6 way these documents are interfering with a criminal 7 investigation, they've got to be released, particularly 8 after she's talked about it publicly and talked to the 9 police about her talking about it publicly. And you 10 ought to know that. 11 MS. ANDERSON: Move on. 12 MR. WEINBERG: And you ought to know that -- 13 MS. ANDERSON: -- move on -- 14 MR. WEINBERG: -- as the "St. Pete Times" 15 lawyer. 16 MS. ANDERSON: Move on. Let's go. 17 MR. WEINBERG: Excuse me? 18 MS. ANDERSON: Let's get onto something else. 19 MR. WEINBERG: Well, you had an objection. 20 MS. ANDERSON: Yes. 21 MR. WEINBERG: Well, my question is on the 22 table. 23 BY MR. WEINBERG: 24 Q Did you -- what did you talk to Agent Strope about 25 concerning the article? TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 173 1 A I don't recall a specific conversation. 2 Q Did he tell you that you shouldn't have done it? 3 Did he tell you that? 4 MS. ANDERSON: Objection. 5 MR. WEINBERG: What's your objection to that? 6 MS. ANDERSON: My objection is that this is a 7 fishing expedition that is not designed or calculated 8 to lead to admissible evidence. 9 MR. WEINBERG: It's not a fishing expedition. 10 Are you instructing her not to answer or not? 11 MS. ANDERSON: No, I'm not instructing her 12 not to answer. 13 BY MR. WEINBERG: 14 Q Then go ahead, Dr. Wood. 15 A I don't recall the conversation. 16 Q Okay. If you go to "The Tampa Tribune" (sic) 17 article, paragraphs one and two, the -- it says, "Laboratory 18 tests indicate that a 36-year-old member of the Church of 19 Scientology went without fluids for five to 10 days and was 20 unconscious for up to two days before her unexplained death 21 in 1995. Those conclusions by Joan Wood, the medical 22 examiner," and it says, "are at odds." I take it that you 23 made those statements or statements like that; is that 24 right? 25 A Yes. TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 174 1 Q And that those statements were based on the 2 autopsy protocol and the lab results that we've been talking 3 about; is that right? 4 A Yes. 5 Q Further on in the article -- well, actually in the 6 article it says, "Joan Wood said it's possible McPherson, 7 who died in December '95, had nothing to drink throughout 8 her 17-day stay at the Fort Harrison Hotel." Again, you 9 made that statement, and those statement -- and that 10 statement was based on the autopsy protocol and the lab 11 results from the vitreous fluids; is that right? 12 A Yes. 13 Q Then it goes on to say in "The Tampa Tribune" 14 article, "Wood said Wednesday the insect bites found on 15 McPherson's body after her death were most likely from 16 cockroaches." In addition, said she was comatose for 24 to 17 48 hours of her life. Again, you made those statements; is 18 that right? 19 A Yes. 20 Q And again, they were based on the autopsy 21 protocol, the vitreous fluids, and as to the cockroach 22 bites, the photographs; is that right? 23 A Yes. 24 Q Then on the second page, third column, it says, 25 "Wood said the infection, quote, absolutely did not, end TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 175 1 quote, cause the bruising and was not responsible for 2 McPherson's death." Now, what -- did you make that 3 statement? 4 A Yes. 5 Q And did you base that statement, as to "absolutely 6 did not cause the bruising and was not responsible for her 7 death," on the autopsy protocol, the photographs and the 8 slides of the skin? 9 A The photographs of the body; the slides of the 10 skin; the overall appearance of the body; the -- my medical 11 training and experience; my knowledge of infectious disease; 12 my knowledge of the types of bleeding caused by septic 13 emboli; my knowledge of Waterhouse-Friderichsen syndrome; my 14 knowledge as to the cause, in fact, of her death; all of 15 those. 16 Q Did it also -- was it also based on slides of the 17 various organs? 18 A Yes, but to a lesser degree. 19 Q And then finally, in the last sentence of the 20 article, it says that you said that McPherson could not have 21 carried on a conversation with anyone that day. Did you 22 make that statement or something like it? 23 A Yes. 24 Q And what was -- what public record was that based 25 on? TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 176 1 A Laboratory test results. 2 Q Okay. Now, Dr. Wood, your office made public the 3 autopsy report; correct? 4 A Yes. 5 Q In your interviews on "Inside Edition," with "The 6 Tampa Tribune" and the "St. Pete Times," you discussed in 7 some detail your conclusions as medical examiner regarding 8 the cause of Lisa McPherson's death; correct? 9 A I wouldn't say "in some detail," but yes. 10 Q Well, do you have any other opinion as to the -- 11 strike that. 12 Do you have any other proximate reason for the 13 cause of death other than what has been set forth in the 14 report of autopsy and discussed by you with the media? 15 A Neither the proximate or the immediate. 16 Q Excuse me? 17 A Neither the proximate or the immediate. 18 Q Is there anything else in your file to indicate a 19 different cause of death other than what is indicated here; 20 that is, thromboembolus-left main pulmonary artery due to 21 thrombosis of left popliteal vein due to bed rest and severe 22 dehydration? 23 A No. 24 Q You have -- am I correct that you've already 25 stated publicly that the staph infection pointed out to you TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 177 1 by Dr. Minkoff did not contribute to or cause the death? 2 A That's correct. 3 Q You have commented publicly on your interpretation 4 of autopsy photos as well as your own observations regarding 5 the appearance of Lisa McPherson including the cockroach 6 bites; is that right? 7 A Could you repeat that question, please? 8 THE REPORTER: Sure. 9 (The aforementioned question was read by the reporter.) 10 THE WITNESS: Yes. 11 BY MR. WEINBERG: 12 Q You have discussed publicly lab results from the 13 autopsy including the vitreous fluid results; correct? 14 A Perhaps the BUN and creatinine. No others. 15 Q Those were part of the vitreous fluid results? 16 A Yes. 17 Q Given what you have discussed publicly, given what 18 you have disclosed publicly by releasing the autopsy report, 19 can you tell us what is left in your file that you have not 20 commented on? 21 A The hospital record -- 22 MS. ANDERSON: -- wait just a moment. To the 23 extent you can answer that question without revealing 24 the existence of investigative material, do so. 25 THE WITNESS: Okay. Various tracking records TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 178 1 within the office; photographs; police interviews; 2 investigative notes; records of telephone calls; 3 microscopic slides; microscopic tissue blocks; tissue 4 cups; remaining body fluids. 5 BY MR. WEINBERG: 6 Q Excuse me. What did you say? 7 A Tissue cups; remaining body fluids; requests for 8 copies of the autopsy; if I didn't say it already, hospital 9 records; EMS run sheets; tracking sheets from within the 10 laboratory with regard to toxicology; tracking sheets within 11 the laboratory with regard to the work-up of the body for 12 autopsy; release forms for the funeral home; tracking 13 records indicating the transmission of the body to us from 14 another facility. That's everything I can think of at the 15 moment. It may not be everything. 16 Q Now, the hospital records were something that you 17 discussed with the media? 18 MS. ANDERSON: Is that a question? 19 BY MR. WEINBERG: 20 Q Correct? 21 A I discussed hospital records with the media when 22 they brought copies provided to them by the family. 23 Q And the copies they had was what you had; wasn't 24 it? 25 A I didn't compare them. TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 179 1 Q Did you look at what Mr. Meagher from "Inside 2 Edition" had? 3 A Yes. 4 Q And did he have -- did it appear that he had a set 5 from New Port Richey and a set from Morton Plant Hospital? 6 A That's what it appeared to be, yes. 7 Q Now, can you -- as to the -- as to microscopic 8 slides, microscopic tissue blocks, tissue cups, remaining 9 body fluids, paraffin blocks, those types of items, evidence 10 of organs, can you tell us how the disclosure of those types 11 of items to us under circumstances -- to our experts under 12 circumstances controlled by you, that are satisfactory with 13 you and the state attorney and the Clearwater Police 14 Department, could in any way impede or interfere with an 15 ongoing investigation? 16 MS. ANDERSON: That requires a legal 17 conclusion on her part, and she is not competent to 18 make that judgment. 19 MR. WEINBERG: Well, but your papers say that 20 she's the one that did make the judgment, Pat, as to 21 there being a valid law enforcement exemption and -- 22 MS. ANDERSON: -- your client has no 23 standing. These are not even records, these specimens 24 aren't. So forget it. 25 MR. WEINBERG: We have no standing? TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 180 1 MS. ANDERSON: Right. 2 MR. WEINBERG: I have as much standing as you 3 do and any other person walking out on the street. 4 MS. ANDERSON: Yes, exactly, which is no 5 standing. Until there's a defendant -- 6 MR. WEINBERG: -- so is that your position as 7 a lawyer, that a member of the public has no standing 8 to make a request for a public record? 9 MS. ANDERSON: These are not records. 10 MR. WEINBERG: Oh, yes, they are. Mr. -- Dr. 11 Wood has already acknowledged that they're records. 12 MS. ANDERSON: They're not records. The 13 specimen are not records. 14 MR. WEINBERG: Yes, they are, Pat. 15 MS. ANDERSON: You have standing to request 16 the records, yes. 17 MR. WEINBERG: They are records, and she's 18 already acknowledged that they're records. She's 19 already acknowledged that at the end of the process 20 that we can have access to everything in her file, 21 including these specimens. She's already said that in 22 the record. 23 MS. ANDERSON: How does that translate into 24 acknowledging that they're records? They're not 25 records. They can't be copied. TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 181 1 MR. WEINBERG: That's your position then? 2 MS. ANDERSON: Yeah, that's my position. 3 MR. WEINBERG: Maybe you ought to read some 4 of the cases because they are records. 5 MS. ANDERSON: You know, you better stop 6 being personally insulting. 7 MR. WEINBERG: I'm not -- you're the one 8 being personally insulting. I'm not being -- first of 9 all, you're the one that's pointing a finger at me. 10 MS. ANDERSON: I don't know you from Adam. 11 But, you know, I had heard that you were a good lawyer. 12 I did not expect insults during this deposition. 13 MR. WEINBERG: Well, I expected -- to tell 14 you the truth about it, I expected when I walked in 15 yesterday to be greeted in a nice manner by folks, and 16 you didn't even say hello to me and neither did George 17 and neither did Dr. Wood. 18 MS. ANDERSON: Now that is a lie. 19 MR. WEINBERG: It is not a lie, Pat, 'cause 20 you didn't. 21 MS. ANDERSON: As I recall, I shook your 22 hand, Sandy. 23 MR. WEINBERG: You didn't -- you wouldn't 24 even look at me, and I don't know why. 25 Look, you know, I represent somebody and it's TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 182 1 my job, you know. And you may not like the clients 2 that I represent, but it shouldn't be personal between 3 me and you. 4 MS. ANDERSON: Exactly. And so -- 5 MR. WEINBERG: -- that's exactly right. 6 MS. ANDERSON: And so why are you being 7 personally insulting? Why are you doing that? 8 MR. WEINBERG: But that's what you're doing. 9 You know, why did you call my client a "so-called 10 `church'" in a pleading? 11 MS. ANDERSON: Is this America? Are we 12 entitled to have our own opinions? 13 MR. WEINBERG: Okay. Can I get back to the 14 question? 15 Could you read my question back? Because it 16 was a proper question. It is what this case is about. 17 And Dr. Wood, I believe, should be able to answer that. 18 It has nothing to do with a legal conclusion. Either 19 it's her belief or it's not her belief. 20 Could you read that question back for her? 21 THE REPORTER: Yeah. 22 (The aforementioned question was read by the reporter.) 23 THE WITNESS: I am not an attorney. I do not 24 have the ability to make that judgment. 25 And second of all, I would not turn over TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 183 1 those types of scientific evidence to anyone in the 2 absence of a lawsuit, meaning that someone has been 3 charged with a crime or there is some civil litigation 4 ongoing. 5 BY MR. WEINBERG 6 Q Do you consider a Public Records Act lawsuit a 7 lawsuit? 8 A No. I said someone charged or a civil litigation 9 related to a death ongoing. 10 Q And where in the Public Records Act does it say 11 that? Does it draw that distinction between -- as you 12 understand it, since you are the records custodian, and I 13 believe you said earlier that you were the one that made the 14 decision or your office did as to what to release and what 15 not to release, can you tell me where it is in the Public 16 Records Act that draws that distinction? 17 A Well, first of all, there are two things. There's 18 number one, active criminal investigation; and number two, 19 my responsibility under the law with regard to being the 20 custodian of records. 21 Q All right. But the active criminal investigation 22 did not prevent you from releasing the autopsy report or 23 talking to the press about your conclusions; is that right? 24 A You are misstating. I did not realize that there 25 was an active criminal investigation at the time I released TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 184 1 it. Had I realized that, I would not have allowed the 2 copies to be released from my office. 3 And my decision to speak with the media regarding 4 the findings of the -- regarding the death in a limited 5 fashion does not change the public records law in the state 6 of Florida. 7 Q In your opinion? 8 A In the opinion of multiple attorneys with whom 9 I've spoken. 10 Q Now, at the time that you made the public 11 statements on "Inside Edition," "Tampa Tribune" and the "St. 12 Pete Times," did you know that there was an active criminal 13 investigation? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Now, who in your office, if anyone, examined the 16 file following our Public Records Act request to determine 17 whether anything in the file should be turned over? 18 A I did. 19 Q What did you -- what parts of the file did you 20 examine? 21 A The file. 22 Q Did you make any attempt to excise out non-exempt 23 material from the file? 24 A There was nothing in that file that I viewed, not 25 being an attorney, as non-exempt. TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 185 1 Q And of course, at that time, that included the 2 autopsy report as well; is that right? 3 A No. As I told you, that -- well, at that moment 4 it did, yes, because I was laboring under a 5 misunderstanding. 6 MS. ANDERSON: Sandy, we're going to have to 7 check with the state attorney's office about her 8 scheduling. 9 MR. WEINBERG: I've probably got about ten 10 minutes and I'm done. 11 MS. ANDERSON: Okay. 12 BY MR. WEINBERG: 13 Q Now, in this law -- in the response to the lawsuit 14 that was filed by you, you attached interrogatory questions 15 to the Church of Scientology asking to identify the name and 16 last known whereabouts of all persons known by you to have 17 provided care to Lisa McPherson the last seventeen days; 18 identify the last known whereabouts, type of medical degree 19 or training and any state of licensure for all health care 20 professionals known by you to have provided care for Lisa 21 McPherson; and then indicate by name and last known 22 whereabouts the individuals who were with Lisa McPherson 23 during the last forty-eight hours of her life. 24 Why did you serve those interrogatories on the 25 Church of Scientology? TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 186 1 MS. ANDERSON: Why? 2 MR. WEINBERG: Why? Yeah, why. 3 MS. ANDERSON: Answer that if you can. 4 THE WITNESS: Because I need that information 5 to go forward to make a determination in this case. 6 BY MR. WEINBERG: 7 Q Now, do you think -- have you ever served 8 interrogatories on a member of the public that made a Public 9 Records Act request? 10 A I never had anyone make a Public Records Act 11 request in which there was a lawsuit. 12 Q You mean you've always turned over the records 13 when they made a request? 14 A It's always been resolved in some fashion other 15 than a lawsuit. 16 Q Well, in this case, do you acknowledge that I 17 wrote two letters to your office seeking the records and 18 articulating in some detail what I wanted and the 19 circumstances under which I wanted them? 20 A Yes. 21 Q Okay. And is there any particular reason why 22 after both of those letters somebody didn't just call me up 23 and say, "Well, at a minimum I'm going to give you the 24 autopsy report, which I've already been talking to the press 25 about"? Is there any particular reason about that? TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 187 1 A No. As I told you, to be included with the 2 letter -- which was shortstopped by your filing of the 3 lawsuit -- was going to be a copy of the autopsy report. 4 Q Now, in my second letter I told you exactly when I 5 was going to file the lawsuit; didn't I? 6 A You put me under an arbitrary time frame of your 7 making, yes. 8 Q Now, can you explain what bearing those questions 9 have on whether or not you have an obligation to turn over 10 public records in a public records request? 11 MS. ANDERSON: Well, now, you're going to be 12 getting into attorney/client work product. And at 13 that, I have to object to and instruct her not to 14 answer that. The answer to that question is going to 15 reveal conversations I have had with her. 16 MR. WEINBERG: Okay. Well, maybe you can 17 tell me what the relevance of this is and why this 18 isn't harassment. I mean, when -- 19 MS. ANDERSON: -- harassment? 20 MR. WEINBERG: Yeah, harassment. Has the 21 "St. Pete Times" ever been served with interrogatories 22 when they made a Public Records Act request? 23 MS. ANDERSON: Of course. Of course. 24 MR. WEINBERG: And what's the relevance 25 of interrogatories as to whether or not a public TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 188 1 official -- what difference does it make? I could 2 be Joe, the garbageman, and make the same request. 3 What difference does it make whether -- in anything 4 about the person making a Public Records Act request? 5 MS. ANDERSON: Well, for example, let's 6 suppose that you assert waiver as a legal theory in 7 your papers. 8 MR. WEINBERG: Uh-huh. 9 MS. ANDERSON: Let's suppose that some of 10 the individuals whose name appears -- who will appear 11 in answer to those interrogatories, we'll have 12 information of theirs on that waiver issue. 13 MR. WEINBERG: How? It's her obligation. 14 It's not my obligation. It's her records. They're not 15 my records. I can't waive her exemption. 16 MS. ANDERSON: No. You're missing my point. 17 MR. WEINBERG: I've missed your point 18 because you're totally irrelevant. You're completely 19 irrelevant. 20 And really, you know, any -- if it gets to 21 the point where a citizen is bombarded by a public 22 official with discovery in order to make a Public 23 Records Act request, you know, that flies in the face 24 of what the Public Records Act is all about. 25 MS. ANDERSON: Do you think a Public Records TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 189 1 Act plaintiff is immune from discovery? Is that your 2 position? 3 MR. WEINBERG: I think a public -- yeah, I 4 do. Discovery like this, absolutely. It's totally 5 irrelevant, completely irrelevant. 6 MS. ANDERSON: Interesting theory. 7 MR. WEINBERG: It's -- if you can explain to 8 me how it's relevant -- 9 MS. ANDERSON: -- listen, we need to call the 10 state's attorney because we do have this trial cooking. 11 MR. WEINBERG: Do you think that they 12 would -- are they going to call here? 13 MS. ANDERSON: I don't know how you got it 14 working. 15 THE WITNESS: They'll be calling upstairs. 16 MS. ANDERSON: She's on as the third witness. 17 MR. WEINBERG: Okay. 18 BY MR. WEINBERG: 19 Q Now, as to -- 20 MS. ANDERSON: How you doing? 21 THE WITNESS: Fine. Thanks. 22 BY MR. WEINBERG: 23 Q Have you made any disparaging remarks to anyone 24 other than your lawyer regarding Scientology, the Church of 25 Scientology or Scientologists? TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 190 1 MS. ANDERSON: That is completely irrelevant 2 and not calculated to lead to discovery of evidence. 3 MR. WEINBERG: And how is that, Pat? If 4 she's biased and her bias is impacting on her -- what 5 you've described in here as her discretionary response 6 to public records, it is one of the most relevant 7 things that there is. 8 I don't want to get in a big dispute about 9 it. But I have the right to ask the questions, 10 particularly in light of your answer that calls it a 11 "so-called `church.'" 12 MS. ANDERSON: I do not think that's 13 relevant. I don't think it's going to lead to any -- 14 MR. WEINBERG: -- are you instructing her not 15 to answer? 16 MS. ANDERSON: No, I'm not telling her not to 17 answer. 18 BY MR. WEINBERG: 19 Q Could you answer that question, please? 20 A I don't recall any disparaging comments. I'm 21 conducting a scientific investigation here. You don't seem 22 to understand that. And it doesn't make any difference to 23 me whether the individuals involved are agnostics, atheists, 24 Scientologists or Catholics. 25 Q Have you made any negative statements to any of TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 191 1 your medical examiner colleagues regarding Scientology, 2 Scientologists or the Church of Scientology? 3 A I believe I explained to one associate that they 4 had been -- that the Church of Scientology had been 5 extremely difficult to work with over the years that I had 6 been here because we simply could get no information from 7 them when we needed information desperately in an attempt to 8 determine what happened to someone and why it happened. 9 Q Have there been other cases that you've done 10 autopsy on involving the Church of Scientology? 11 A Oh, yes. 12 Q And how many other cases? 13 A Well, four cases come to mind just off the top of 14 my head. 15 Q Have you expressed negative opinions about the 16 church, the Church of Scientology or Scientologists to other 17 medical examiners around the state? 18 A Not that I recall. 19 Q Have you spoken with Sergeant Andrews and Agent 20 Strope about their views of the Church of Scientology and 21 Scientologists? 22 A In a general fashion, yes. 23 Q Did Agent Strope tell you that he believed that 24 the Church of Scientology was not a legitimate religion or 25 words to that effect? TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 192 1 MS. ANDERSON: Objection, fishing expedition, 2 has no relevance. 3 MR. WEINBERG: Well, he told me that. He 4 told me about that, and Dr. Wood has said that he 5 talked to her. 6 BY MR. WEINBERG: 7 Q So what I'm asking you, Dr. Wood, is whether he 8 told you in words or effect something to the effect that he 9 believed that the Church of Scientology was not a legitimate 10 religion. 11 MS. ANDERSON: And I'm objecting because it 12 has no bearing in this case. 13 MR. WEINBERG: You've made your objection. 14 And she -- I note the objection and she -- you know, 15 the question stands. 16 THE WITNESS: All he said to me that I can 17 recall was that he objected to the likening of an 18 auditor-scientologist relationship as being that like a 19 priest-penitent. 20 BY MR. WEINBERG: 21 Q In the Catholic church? 22 A In the Catholic church. 23 Q And did you in that conversation express any 24 similar view? 25 A No, not that I recall. TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 193 1 Q Where did this particular conversation -- is this 2 more than one conversation or just one conversation? 3 MS. ANDERSON: This is irrelevant and not 4 calculated to lead to discoverable evidence. 5 MR. WEINBERG: With all due respect, bias is 6 one of the most relevant issues in any lawsuit. 7 MS. ANDERSON: What this police officer 8 thinks is not relevant in this lawsuit. 9 MR. WEINBERG: But what she thinks is. And 10 she filed a paper -- 11 MS. ANDERSON: -- she has just answered your 12 question -- 13 MR. WEINBERG: -- could I just finish -- 14 MS. ANDERSON: -- and now you're saying, 15 "Where did the conversation go?" 16 MR. WEINBERG: And she filed a paper which 17 calls my client a so-called church, quote, unquote. 18 MS. ANDERSON: So what. So what. 19 MR. WEINBERG: Well, believe it or not, I've 20 interpreted that, and so has anybody else that looked 21 at the quotes, as her saying that it's not a legitimate 22 religion. 23 MS. ANDERSON: So what. 24 MR. WEINBERG: So what? 25 MS. ANDERSON: Yeah. What difference does TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 194 1 that make? 2 MR. WEINBERG: Well, you know, maybe I think 3 that that is bigoted. Maybe I think that that is 4 biased. 5 MS. ANDERSON: Is this a civil rights action? 6 MR. WEINBERG: No. What it is is that we are 7 entitled to be treated the same way as any other 8 citizen. 9 MS. ANDERSON: I agree. 10 MR. WEINBERG: And if, in fact, her feelings 11 were so strong as to put in a public document that it 12 was a -- not a legitimate church, quote, unquote, then 13 that indicates to me a concern that she is not going to 14 be fair. 15 On top of that, one of the investigating 16 officers in this case told me and told Mr. Fugate, who 17 was at the meeting, exactly what Dr. Wood just said he 18 said, which was he got grave offense by any suggestion 19 that the Church of Scientology was a church like his 20 church, the Catholic church. 21 So yeah, I'm concerned about that, and I 22 think bias is an issue in this case. Yes, it is. 23 And -- 24 MS. ANDERSON: -- it might be an issue -- 25 MR. WEINBERG: -- I'm trying to do this in as TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 195 1 professional and low-key a fashion as possible. I 2 understand your sensitivity. I understand Dr. Wood's 3 sensitivity. But you need to understand my client's 4 sensitivity. Okay? 5 MS. ANDERSON: If it were on the table that 6 she were treating the church differently than someone 7 else, for example, you might have a point. 8 MR. WEINBERG: But you know what? I don't 9 know of anybody who has ever been served in a public 10 records lawsuit with discovery questions with regard to 11 an ongoing criminal investigation. 12 MS. ANDERSON: You're wrong. Just go call 13 any of the -- 14 MR. WEINBERG: -- now -- 15 MS. ANDERSON: -- nineteen lawsuits. 16 MR. WEINBERG: Now, are you being sarcastic? 17 MS. ANDERSON: No, I'm not. 18 BY MR. WEINBERG: 19 Q Could you answer my question, please? 20 MS. ANDERSON: What is the question? 21 BY MR. WEINBERG: 22 Q The question was: Was this a series of 23 conversations or one conversation with Agent Strope? 24 A I recall one conversation. 25 Q Were there any similar conversations with Sergeant TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 196 1 Andrews? 2 A No. 3 Q Were there any similar conversations with the 4 state attorney's office? 5 A No. 6 Q Have you taken any public positions over the years 7 in Clearwater adverse to the Church of Scientology? 8 A No. 9 Q Have you talked to Wayne Shelor with regard to his 10 views about the Church of Scientology? 11 A No. 12 MS. ANDERSON: And I'd like a standing 13 objection to any questions like this if you don't mind. 14 MR. WEINBERG: That's fine. 15 BY MR. WEINBERG: 16 Q Did you have any discussions with the reporters 17 you talked to about your views of Scientology, including Mr. 18 Meagher? 19 A No, not that I recall. 20 MR. WEINBERG: Why don't we take a couple 21 minute break. I'll chat with them, and there may be a 22 couple more questions or I may be done. 23 (The deposition was concluded at 11:15 a.m.) 24 25 TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 197 1 S T I P U L A T I O N S 2 It was agreed upon between counsel present and the 3 witness that reading and signing of the deposition is not 4 waived. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 198 1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 2 3 4 STATE OF FLORIDA : COUNTY OF HILLSBOROUGH : 5 6 I, Jill M. Giles-Saenz, Court Reporter and Notary 7 Public in and for the State of Florida at Large: 8 DO HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing deposition was taken before me at the time and place therein designated; 9 that before testimony was taken, the deponent had been sworn previously; that my shorthand notes were thereafter reduced 10 to typewriting under my supervision; and the foregoing pages, numbered 150 through 196, is a true record of the 11 testimony given by the witness. 12 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative, employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties, nor relative or 13 employee of such attorney or counsel, or financially interested in the foregoing action. 14 WITNESS MY HAND AND SEAL THIS, THE 12TH DAY OF 15 FEBRUARY, A.D., 1997, IN THE CITY OF TAMPA, COUNTY OF HILLSBOROUGH, STATE OF FLORIDA. 16 17 18 19 _______________________________________ 20 Jill M. Giles-Saenz Court Reporter 21 Notary Public State of Florida at Large 22 23 24 25 TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 199 1 I have read the foregoing pages and, 2 except for any corrections or amend- 3 ments I have indicated on the sheet 4 attached for such purposes, I hereby 5 subscribe to the accuracy of the 6 transcript. 7 8 _____________________________________ (Signature of Deponent) 9 _____________________________________ 10 (Date) 11 _____________________________________ (Witness to Signature) 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014 200 1 E R R A T A S H E E T 2 PAGE NO. LINE NO. CORRECTION 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 TAMPA BAY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (813) 229-0014